Black Native Americans -  Black Native Americans?  (63 views) Notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussion.Subscribe
 
From: cynthianc4/20/05 9:27 PM 
To: neith4  (32 of 39) 
 677.32 in reply to 677.29 

My disclaimer, I don't claim to be an expert but I want to share what I know. When the first Europeans arrived in America - they assumed the Native Americans were one of the lost tribes of Israel. They had nothing to base this upon other than assumption.
The relations between Africans and Native Americans has puzzled me. Native Americans offered escaped slaves refuge, welcomed them and made them parts of their family. Yes the Blacks and the French fought along side of the Native Americans against the injustices that oppressed upon them.
Many Blacks of my generation are confused, because of stories told by our grandparents. Myself in particular, growing up in NC was taught that we were part Indian; because of the Lumbee. Asking my Auntie what tribe we belonged to she replied, "Moe" (unsure of spelling) what I found in later life is that she meant we were mo' white than anything else. My grandparents were "Passing" as Native Americans for survival. They were in the rural south during slavery and reconstruction; passing in a predominatly Indian county afforded them opportunities and chances for success they would not have other wise obtain as Blacks. Thus the lie continued for generations; until we could research our family history - unfortunately I have not been able to find any possiblity of Native American blood. Although I'm not a part of Native American culture and I am part of their past and their history as they are of mine.

 
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From: Coconut Queen (JEANNE2469) DelphiPlus Member Icon4/21/05 9:28 PM 
To: YehudahAvram  (33 of 39) 
 677.33 in reply to 677.1 

Here's a link to an interesting article that I found in my travels researching genealogy and history:

http://www.williamlkatz.com/africanindians.html

It's called "Africans and Indians: Only in America."

Jeanne

 

 
From: neith44/21/05 9:44 PM 
To: cynthianc  (34 of 39) 
 677.34 in reply to 677.32 

Some Native American cultures allow for adoption of children - one of your ancestors was probably adopted into an Amerindian family that perhaps was already mixed blood? I take it if they could pass for indian that wavy or straight hair is dominant in your family and individuals with darker skin claimed that was due to the amerind genes?

If anyone with a higher percentage of amerind genes queries your interest in that part of your heritiage you could tyr telling them you want to trace the people who helped your ancestors so you can give them the honor they're due?

 

 
From: YehudahAvram4/22/05 12:30 AM 
To: Coconut Queen (JEANNE2469) DelphiPlus Member Icon  (35 of 39) 
 677.35 in reply to 677.33 
Thank you for the info. I checked out the site,it was interesting. I will buy the book.
 

 
From: Coconut Queen (JEANNE2469) DelphiPlus Member Icon4/22/05 3:19 PM 
To: YehudahAvram  (36 of 39) 
 677.36 in reply to 677.35 

I found that article very interesting also.

Jeanne

 

 
From: cynthianc4/23/05 5:28 PM 
To: neith4  (37 of 39) 
 677.37 in reply to 677.34 

Thanks that not a bad idea. To research the families that have helped mine and thank them. My family grew to become successful because of their ability to pass as Native Americans. You know it saddens me that the relationship and support between the two cultures does not still exist. We had the same fight and struggles, I hope to learn a lot more about the Native culture and if possible become socially and politically involved.

Cynthia

 

 
From: ctj5275/13/05 10:17 AM 
To: Mark S Madrid (madridm)  (38 of 39) 
 677.38 in reply to 677.28 

Osiyo, Mark!

I wasn't even aware that this forum had been revived!

And I was even more suprised that a couple of posters I hadn't heard from in awhile post on it?

Let's move on anyway!

(Smile)...

Now for the hard part...

(Sigh)...

The rest of us may well have our own feelings and thoughts as to
what those aformentioned conflicts and disputes are about?

But...

Opinions aren't facts!

And...

To me?

The real issues and problems did and do revolve around how those past and present parties in conflict-- or disputing each other's claims-- have been writing and talking at--not to-each other!

Regardless:

I do believe that Sister Vann et al--the present head of one Freedmens Descendants' advocacy organization--has made it pretty clear that she feels and thinks that the Cherokee Freedmen descendants do see themselves as a part of--not apart from--the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma...

Etc.

My and the point?

Even you need (and I want you) to make a clear distinction, between those other imagined or real african/indigenous folks, their claims about everybody and everything identified and related to being indigenous on this continent and continents; as opposed to those former--now ousted--Freedmen Descendants' tribal members of various displaced/relocated southeastern woodlands tribes, some of who have aired in public and in print (and via a few message boards) a number of complaints related to the violation of past treaty agreements, the illegal ouster of themselves as tribal members from those aformentioned tribes, etc; and which has led to the bringing of charges by their legal representations, i. e., as regards the alleged violation of their individual and collective civil and/or human rights, which therefore has led some of them to seek regress in the federal/U. S. courts...

That is:

Let us try to make a clear distinction between imagined and real
issues and problems...

FYI...

Later...

Peace...

Edited 5/13/2005 10:22 am ET by ctj527

Edited 5/13/2005 10:25 am ET by ctj527

Edited 5/13/2005 10:26 am ET by ctj527

  • Edited 5/13/2005 10:28 am ET by ctj527
 

 
From: ctj5275/15/05 3:44 PM 
To: Mark S Madrid (madridm)  (39 of 39) 
 677.39 in reply to 677.6 

You wrote:

I'm Oklahoma Mvskoke, Creek. I've lived with the Seminole in Florida since 1978. I have grand children there, as well as friends and relatives, from the Ok. and FL. Seminole, and Ok. and Qualla Cherokee,

In Florida there is a strong historical, and blood tie, to the Ashante people that stood and helped fight for freedom, family and country. If you were to travel, get out from behind your computer, and meet the people, it would be VERY obvious of that "tie"

CTJ:

At last, somebody who is either an actual tribal member, or-- since you live among--perhaps you can answer some of my questions!

But, not until you did identify who you were and are , would I have had a clue as to who to ask?

Do keep that in mind!

Now I'm going to accept your commentary as rhetorical:

Since it is a big continent, and some of us are doing the best we can, based on our limited resources, too!

You wrote:

The former chairman of the Florida Seminole, James Billie, made a concerted effort to re-unite / repatriate, the descendants of the Seminole /Ashante blood mix. These descendants are now citizens of Seminole Tribe of Florida. This blood mix extends to families that were marched to exile in the Oklahoma Indian Territory.

CTJ:

Good to know!

And good for him!!

(BIG smile)...

You wrote:

In the past, some of the people had adopted the peculiar practice of slavery. At the end of the "War Between the States", these people were "freed".

The "Freedmen" were given "the vote" in the Oklahoma Indian Nations by the U.S. Federal Government , at the end of the (un) Civil War. This was one aspect of a war reparation policy to push the already bankrupt Indian governments to further subjugation. As might be noted the US government did NOT emulate the same policy in regards to their own "Freedmen"

CTJ:

It would also help if you reminded the other posters that some displaced/relocated tribes sided with the Confederacy during the
U. S., Civil War, and what was conceded when their side lost--as in the freeing of their african/indigenous descended slaves freedom and them being giving the option of joining those tribes as equal members et al--was determined by the way of treaties between the displaced southeastern tribes and the commanders of the union army aka the winning side?

Nothing was merely based on word of mouth...

You wrote:

Recently, in accord with the policy of political self determination, the OKLAHOMA Seminole Nation, voted to discontinue extending "the vote" regarding the effects to their national policies, to non-blood related, non-Indian "Freedmen".

CTJ:

I'm glad that I reread what you wrote?

I've deleted my original part of this post because of it!

So:

Just who were or are you referring to here?

And how were the cases of ousted Seminole Freedmen descended tribal members Sylvia Davis (who alleged she was and is a descendant of a very legendary past Seminole tribal member) et al
resolved?

You wrote:

There have been individuals on the internet that have, either through ignorance, or intentional application of character flaw, tried to paint this as an issue of "racial intolerance".

I encourage you to travel and get to know the people first hand.

CTJ:

Some former--now ousted--Cherokee Freedmen descendants are alleging that...

I suggest it had and has to do with certain other parties greed and their politics...

Time will tell...

CTJ

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark S Madrid
Florida Chapter Information Director

Florida AIM Home Page
Florida AIM Forum
My Web Page




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Edited 5/15/2005 5:35 pm ET by ctj527

  • Edited 5/15/2005 5:37 pm ET by ctj527
 

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