Coalition of the Confused

Hosted by Jenifer (Zarknorph)

Confused malcontents swilling Chardonnay while awaiting the Zombie Apocalypse.

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Racism   General Confusion

Started 6/13/19 by Jenifer (Zarknorph); 21828 views.
Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)

8/17/19

Really interesting story.


BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

8/18/19

Sounds very similar to the forces that created Zionists and Zionism.

The early Zionists felt rejected by Zionism but entitled to the fruits of other people's property and labour.

The first ones who went to Palestine with their sticks and guns found property to be very easy to steal. It was much, much more difficult to exploit people's labour - especially as they hated the people they'd robbed and had no intention of employing them.

But employing each other was ridiculously difficult too - what use were people with soft hands and round tummies?

Around half of the First Aliyah went back to their middle class families in Poland and Vilnius - but still boasted of what it was like in the land of milk and honey and how easy it was to steal $millions worth of land.

This lead to a second and third and fourth wave of disaffected children of pious parents deciding they could be land-grabbers too.

Di (amina046)

From: Di (amina046)

8/18/19

Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)

8/19/19

No.

It's not similar at all.

This was one story about one boy who fell in with a bad crowd, but then grew up and turned away from hate.

In reply toRe: msg 22
Jenifer (Zarknorph)
Host

From: Jenifer (Zarknorph)

8/20/19

adwil

From: adwil

8/23/19

Ah, another very Berry fairy tale. So convincing!

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

8/23/19

adwil said:

Ah, another very Berry fairy tale. So convincing!

Every word true (except for two typos):

The early Zionists felt rejected by Zionism Judaism but entitled to the fruits of other people's property and labour.

The first ones who went to Palestine with their sticks and guns found property to be very easy to steal. It was much, much more difficult to exploit people's labour - especially as they hated the people they'd robbed and had no intention of employing them.

But employing each other was ridiculously difficult too - what use were people with soft hands and round tummies?

Around half of the First Aliyah went back to their middle class families in Poland and Vilnius - but still boasted of what it was like in the land of milk and honey and how easy it was would be to steal $millions worth of land.

This lead to a second and third and fourth wave of disaffected children of pious parents deciding they could be land-grabbers too.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

8/23/19

adwil said:

Ah, another very Berry fairy tale. So convincing!

This is typical of the Zionist thuggery in Forums.

They poison the discourse despite know that every word (I've) posted is either 100% true, or, at least, applicable to a big proportion of their gun-wielding buddies.

1) The early Zionists felt rejected by Zionism Judaism - that's true.  The Gaon of Vilna was expelled and wandered in Europe, his followers went to Palestine in 1810 and seem to have been scattered. (The lying Zionists won't tell me what happened - butI doubt if the Gaon's unpublished writings found a home in Galilee - more likely they survived the Holocaust in Vilnius and were re-discovered)

2) entitled to the fruits of other people's property and labour - that might be a slur except its pretty much true - white-skinned Polish could not work the fields in the sun like Palestinians (or, later, Iraqi and Moroccan and Yemeni Jews) - white Zionists only wanted to be overseers.

3) The first ones who went to Palestine with their sticks and guns found property to be very easy to steal - true - their letters home boast of it. 

4) It was much, much more difficult to exploit people's labour - true, at least for the landless, as the first Zionists were until they'd dispossessed Rothschild of all of his plantataions (c. 1899-1900).

5) especially as they hated the people they'd robbed - true

6) and had no intention of employing them - increasingly true after 1908.

7) But employing each other was ridiculously difficult too - what use were people with soft hands and round tummies?  - absolutely true.

8) Around half of the First Aliyah went back  - true, apparently.

9) to their middle class families in Poland and Vilnius - can't be sure of that - some of them clearly did, many more may have gone to the US.

10) still boasted of what it was like in the land of milk and honey and how easy it was would be to steal $millions worth of land - that's what's in their letters

11) This lead to a second and third and fourth wave of disaffected children of pious parents deciding they could be land-grabbers too - that's my reading of it - no pogroms between 1882 and 1903, Kishinev, as was punished by the organs of the Czarist state. And was a pale shadow of Deir Yassin alone, unpunished and one of 400 or 500 such clearances in a few months.

You think I'm being unfair to this hasbarist and Zionists generally?

adwil

From: adwil

8/23/19

"You think I'm being unfair to this hasbarist and Zionists generally?"

You're correct that the aim was to establish a Jewish state by buying up as much land as possible and settling it. 

"their letters home boast of it..... that's what's in their letters"

Would you be so kind as to give me a link so I can read these letters for myself? If they're in a book, I can order that from my library.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

8/24/19

adwil said:

Would you be so kind as to give me a link so I can read these letters for myself? If they're in a book, I can order that from my library.

I think you're getting senile - you've seen these from me several times.

Benny Morris has the most damning evidence that the first Zionists considered Palestine highly desireable, much nicer than Poland:

These people seem to have arrived in June of that year and they know exactly what they plan to do:

July 1882 Ben-Yehuda writes to Peretz Smolenskin in Vienna "The thing we must do now is to become as strong as we can, to conquer the country, covertly, bit by bit ... we shall act like silent spies, we shall buy, buy, buy" (Be'eri, Eliezer, Hebrew, "The beginning of the of the Israeli-Arab Conflict, 1882-1911 p38-39. Haifa: Sifriyat Po'alim/Haifa University Press, 1985 - cited Morris, Righteous Victims)

But by October of the same year he (or someone of the same name?) has decided that cheating the Palestinians is the path to take. Ben-Yehuda and Yehiel Michal Pines write to Rashi Pin in Vilna: "... There are now only five hundred [thousand] Arabs, who are not very strong, and from whom we shall easily take away the country if only we do it through stratagems [and] without drawing upon us their hostility before we become the strong and populous ones." (Ibid)

Similarly, and in the same month of Oct 1882 - Validimir Dubnow writes to his brother: "... The Jews will yet arise and, arms in hand (if need be), declare that they are the masters of their ancient homeland." (Shapira Anita - Hebrew, "Land and Power". Tel-Aviv: Am Oved, 1992, p 86-87 - cited Morris, Righteous Victims)

In December one of the immigrants is known to have shot dead his first Palestinian - the ensuing protests (200 natives, no immigrants lynched) led his buddies (the non-racist Rothschild settlers in the country since 1878?) to imprison him for the killing but he got off and left the country. It was 4 years before we know of any riot serious enough to beat (but not kill) one of the gun-toting immigrants.

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