Coalition of the Confused

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Confused malcontents swilling Chardonnay while awaiting the Zombie Apocalypse.

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adwil

From: adwil

4/17/20

BerrySteph said:

Christians and Muslims had no place in Palestine any more. You know its true - be proud. Without ethnic cleansing there'd be no ethnically pure state.

If that was the aim, they were not very successful, were they?   There are more than 2 million non-Jewish citizens of Israel. 

bml00

From: bml00

4/17/20

What was 1850 is an utter irrelevance to the events of today .

The ZIONISTS were Jews they are still Jews by any yard stick measure .

BM

adwil

From: adwil

4/17/20

bml00 said:

What was 1850 is an utter irrelevance to the events of today .

True.  

There were many people who were not Jews, who believed the Jewish claim for their own homeland was fully justified. You can go back long before 1850 to find prominent people who were Zionists. Napoleon, for example, tried to recruit Jews to his armies by promising to re-establish a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine. He lost the war he was fighting against the Brits so whether he'd have kept his promise is unknown. I know the return of the Jews to Palestine was being discussed during the 1820s in an Essex 'vicarage'. I've read the diaries and was surprised to read of their discussion. The family were excited about the possibility. It seems fairly general that the non-Conformists particularly supported a Jewish return to Zion.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

4/17/20

bml00 said:

What was 1850 is an utter irrelevance to the events of today .

The Palestinians made the terrible error of welcoming Jews and thinking the Zionists were the same.

When, if they'd only taken up sticks, the catastrophe of the Nakba would never have happened.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

4/17/20

adwil said:

There were many people who were not Jews, who believed the Jewish claim for their own homeland was fully justified ... the return of the Jews to Palestine was being discussed during the 1820s in an Essex 'vicarage'. I've read the diaries and was surprised to read of their discussion. The family were excited about the possibility. It seems fairly general that the non-Conformists particularly supported a Jewish return to Zion.

You're bigging up the antisemitic.

The same as these people - the only recorded mass protest against the Jews in the whole of Nazi Germany.

Among those expelled was the family of Sendel and Riva Grynszpan, Polish Jews who had emigrated to Germany in 1911 and settled in Hanover, Germany.

At the trial of Adolf Eichmann in 1961, Sendel Grynszpan recounted the events of their deportation from Hannover on the night of 27 October 1938:

"Then they took us in police trucks, in prisoners' lorries, about 20 men in each truck, and they took us to the railway station. The streets were full of people shouting: 'Juden raus! Auf nach Palästina!'" ("Jews out, out to Palestine!").[22. Hannah Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem, p.228.] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht#Vom_Rath_shooting

adwil said:

There were many people who were not Jews, who believed the Jewish claim for their own homeland was fully justified. You can go back long before 1850 to find prominent people who were Zionists. Napoleon, for example, tried to recruit Jews to his armies by promising to re-establish a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine. 

Over and over, Adwil uses examples that prove (would prove) the opposite of what he thinks they do.

The Wacky says that your claim is entirely unproven and probably false.

In 1940, historian Franz Kobler claimed to have found a detailed version of the proclamation from a German translation.[7] Kobler's claim was published in The New Judaea, the official periodical of the Zionist Organisation.[8] The Kobler version suggests that Napoleon was inviting Jews across the Mideast and North Africa to create a Jewish state.[9] It includes phrases such as "Rightful heirs of Palestine!" and "your political existence as a nation among the nations." These concepts have been more commonly associated with the Zionist movement, which developed in the late 19th century.[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_and_the_Jews

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

4/17/20

bml00 said:

What was 1850 is an utter irrelevance to the events of today .

You're calling Adwil a liar and an idiot. The trickle of Jews going to Palestine started in 1850 - but Adwil is partly right, support for kicking the Jews out of Europe started earlier than that.

bml00 said:

The ZIONISTS were Jews they are still Jews by any yard stick measure .

Just because you've lied over the Zionism of the Gaon of Vilna (for which you have no evidence atall), don't call Adwil a liar. Christians were the (only?) early Zionists.

BerrySteph

From: BerrySteph

4/18/20

Another challenge to Adwil and BM - leaving them time-wasting, blathering and angry.

"... show me any Nazi examples of the kind of violent racist flag-waving demonstrations that Israel has every day."

BerrySteph said: This is the only recorded mass protest against the Jews in the whole of Nazi Germany between 1920 and 1945:

Among those expelled was the family of Sendel and Riva Grynszpan, Polish Jews who had emigrated to Germany in 1911 and settled in Hanover, Germany.

At the trial of Adolf Eichmann in 1961, Sendel Grynszpan recounted the events of their deportation from Hannover on the night of 27 October 1938:

"Then they took us in police trucks, in prisoners' lorries, about 20 men in each truck, and they took us to the railway station. The streets were full of people shouting: 'Juden raus! Auf nach Palästina!'" ("Jews out, out to Palestine!").[22. Hannah Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem, p.228.] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht#Vom_Rath_shooting

Look up Rossestrasse - the only demonstrations known were during the war (February and March 1943) and were pro-Jewish! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenstrasse_protest

adwil

From: adwil

4/18/20

BerrySteph said:

The Wacky says

I didn't mention Kobler. I agree that his 'discovered' document is a fake.

No proclamation was ever issued, though there seems to be evidence that it was discussed..

On 22/5/1799, the following appeared in Le Moniteur.  

It's discussed here:  Zionism and the Enlightenment: The "Letter of a Jew to His Brethren"
Jeremy D. Popkin
Jewish Social Studies
Vol. 43, No. 2 (Spring, 1981), pp. 113-120 (8 pages)
Published by: Indiana University Press

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4467125?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

bml00

From: bml00

4/18/20

Poor Berry

BM

adwil

From: adwil

4/18/20

bml00 said:

Poor Berry

What a 'nice' person you are to show sympathy for Berry's trials and tribulations.

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