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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 576202 views.
DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

14/8/21

I’m not sure whose sock puppet you are but

Sten556

From: Sten556

14/8/21

I think that the creator of the 6.8 SPC, one of the most well thought out and promising cartridges in history (sadly shot down by the Grendel cabal and their drones) knows a bit more than some rando that posts funny meme of harry potter.

"With their 7mm Mausers, the Spaniards shot the crap out of us in Cuba. If it hadn’t been for a few 5th Army Gatling guns and artillery that just happened to be brought along, things may not have gone as well for the Rough Riders as portrayed in the movies.  The British met the same 7mm Mausers in Africa in the hands of the Boers and were equally shocked by it as we Americans were.      There are those people who love to propose their pet calibers or cartridges they designed for match shooting or hunting: Most of these people have probably never been in a gun fight.  And all those people who suggest one of those accurate Scandinavian calibers apparently hasn’t read Louis LaGarde’s book, Gunshot Injuries (ISBN 0-935856-12-9) and found out why the Japanese quickly dropped the 6.5mm caliber after fighting the Russians in 1905 even though they basically win that war.  Actually any country that had a 6.5mm or smaller caliber service rifle quickly ditched it for something of larger caliber immediately after any fight they got into.        People with their 6 mm and 6.5 mm parlor cartridges don’t want anyone to know that the Russian “Unified Cartridge” program in the 1970s tried these calibers to replace the M43 (7.62x39 mm) and M91 (7.62x54R) with one cartridge, this program produced no useable cartridge.  Knights Armament want us to adopt a 6x35mm and SSK is touting their 6x45UMC;  the 6x45mm wildcat (necked up .223 case) has been around for 50 years, it is a weak pathetic cartridge so how is the 6x35mm (.221 Fireball necked up) any better. "

  • Edited 14 August 2021 19:03  by  Sten556
stancrist

From: stancrist

14/8/21

DavidPawley said:

<Stan>RFP & RFI are lies to cover breaching Hague iii, not what the reason for the request and the desired capability!</Stan>  

Wow.  Since my replies to roguetechie contained absolutely nothing whatsoever about Hague III, I am concerned about your mental health, and strongly urge you to seek professional medical help for the hallucinations you're apparently experiencing.

stancrist

From: stancrist

14/8/21

Sten556 said:

I think that the creator of the 6.8 SPC, one of the most well thought out and promising cartridges in history (sadly shot down by the Grendel cabal and their drones)...

We seemed to be on the same page, until that post.

First, 6.8 SPC was not very well thought out or promising, as shown by how easily it was "shot down" by 6.5 Grendel.

While I think Cris Murray and Steve Holland made an excellent choice in opting to use the .30 Remington as a parent case, they badly screwed up in opting to load it with a short, stubby, mediocre-BC bullet.

Murray did not repeat that mistake when he later developed the 7mm UIAC, which he gave a longer, streamlined projectile.

As for the "7mm Mauser" paragraph you quoted, that was self-serving nonsense to extol the supposed historical superiority of 7mm as a military rifle caliber.  It is propaganda that disingenuously distorts the truth in order to trash calibers smaller than the 7mm he was trying to promote.  For instance:

"the Japanese quickly dropped the 6.5mm caliber after fighting the Russians in 1905FALSE.  The Japanese upgraded their 6.5mm ammo by switching from a round nose bullet to a spitzer, and continued to use that 6.5mm cartridge until 1945.

"any country that had a 6.5mm or smaller caliber service rifle quickly ditched it for something of larger caliber immediately after any fight they got into.FALSE.  Pretty much every country that used 6.5mm in the First World War, still used 6.5mm more than two decades later in the Second World War.

"Knights Armament want us to adopt a 6x35mm and SSK is touting their 6x45UMCMISLEADING.  Knight was pitching the 6x35 TSWG as a PDW round, not a rifle/LMG cartridge. 

And I've never heard of SSK touting a 6x45 UMC, although SSK did develop a 6.5x42 MPC.  See pp. 29-30 of 12) pg 28-31 F-ammo.pmd (thedonovan.com)

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

15/8/21

Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.

Stupidity drove the 6.8 pick over 6.5

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

15/8/21

Nice try at again being dishonest as all get out emeric.

But here you go I'll play ball even though we both know you know this and you're just mad you're getting called out.

In order to get a 40x53 grenade to 1000 meters with a mk47 AGL how many degrees of superelevation will you need to apply emeric?

More or less than you'd need from an xm25?

Projectiles don't EVER travel in a dead straight line Emeric.

You brought up muzzle velocity in a TIME OF FLIGHT discussion because you have no intention of arguing honestly much less in good faith.

Muzzle velocity is not time of flight.

A 40x53 HEDP grenade from a mark 47 in fact must travel a much greater distance will having a substantially worse form factor.

Do I need to go on and explain for everyone else even further how much you're trying to baffle with bullshit instead of bring the facts?

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

15/8/21

At least your trolling is fun interesting and makes us look for how you're deliberately twisting things.

Well played Stan.

I like you

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

15/8/21

So the fun part of sten's additions to the conversation is they are a mental trap designed to lure certain individuals here into thinking yeah thinking a certain bullet diameter is somehow intrinsically better is stupid!

So is trying to slavishly recreate an old thing no matter how much it's just not actually going to work for your new application and or platform because it's just inherently unsuitable for modern use!

Hey.... Wait a second... 

stancrist

From: stancrist

15/8/21

roguetechie said:

Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. Stupidity drove the 6.8 pick over 6.5

???  None of that makes any sense as a reply to my comments about .264 USA and .277 USA.

stancrist

From: stancrist

15/8/21

roguetechie said:

At least your trolling is fun interesting and makes us look for how you're deliberately twisting things.

Only in your mind, have I "deliberately twisted" anything.

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