Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 458760 views.

From: poliorcetes


"autonomous" is a very, very problematic term. It integrates a lot of different means, and a lot of that are related with human capabilities

And that's a huge problem, because specific AI is never, ever be "human" by any means.

So, an AEGIS is fully autonomous because it needs to be. Target are not enough numerous, always valuable and critical to be engaged. Humans needs to get out of the loop for enough success rate. Ditto for Active Defense Systems such as trophy or iron fist: targets are easy to discriminate and human reaction times are far from being enough.

Indeed, autonomous guidance is mature for other kind of targets. During the eighties, as you know, there were a lot of functioning systems that can be fired and forgot, such as BAT, any microwave-guided ATGM, etc. Soviet armored menace was a huge opportunity for developing a lot of expensive autonomous systems.

In all these examples, there is no "decission". The algorithm is painfully simple: if inside this volume of space certain specific targets are detected by raw mass, temperature of speed, they will be engaged at the optimal moment. Such targets will be discriminated using non machine-learning decission trees.

However, if the target is a human or a group of humans, or civilian vehicles, then "decission" is an unavoidable task. There are no mechanical decission trees apt for such task. Besides ethical and moral questions such as engaging innocent civilians if possible (something that is really needed to be preserved in our Western world), the opportunity cost is even more important under a military perspective.

You see, any army will have a limited ammount of effectors of any kind. Even if dual / COTS technologies and resources decrease the unitary cost of an effector, the numbers will be limited and even less numbers will be ready for use at any moment for logistical reasons.

Therefore, engaging civilian targets (persons or assets) will be under human supervision, because if the system doesn't engage the most valuable target at the correct moment, the opportunity cost will raise like crazy. Instead of pure autonomous systems (which are demoted only by Western activists and paid campaigneers), the actual game changers are going to be the systems which maximize the human-machine teaming capabilities, shorten the kill chain loop and integrate themselves more in a comprehensive Battle Management System at any organic level.

And I'm afraid that such horrendously difficult enterprise is the core of Chinese efforts since a number of years ago


From: RovingPedant


gatnerd said...

So based on this video (literally the only video or info I can find on them) it looks like the plate is UHMWPE:

Going by the weight and approximate dimensions the density is about 1g/cm^3. The only ballistic material I know of in that range is UHMWPE.


From: roguetechie


I would guess it's UHMWPE combined with other things yes, I think the difference is in how that UHMWPE is STRUCTURED in this "plate".

Hey so TOTALLY UNRELATED SIDENOTE, did you know you can make shapes out of ABS and PLA that stop 380 rounds?!

I think what we're seeing is essentially bulk structured materials at work here, (the terminology for what this actually is might be different but the end result is quite similar)

There's a whole bunch of really neat and tantalizing stuff that's sorta broken the surface in the past few years that essentially hits tech news like hey look at this cool thing, it could be useful sometime in the future and then you hear nothing about it after that.

Like roving pedant points out, judging by the weight plus the thickness we know of it would almost have to be some sort of UHMWPE with significant air spaces internally and very likely with small amounts of heavier materials adding to it's structural reinforcement.

I suspect it would be EXTREMELY INTERESTING to saw one of these bad boys open.


From: Farmplinker


So a 25mm grenade launcher as a PDW in say, 20 years?


From: stancrist


What if the enemy is closer than the grenade's arming distance?

Jeff (Jefffar)

From: Jeff (Jefffar)


They get hit with a  25mm rifled slug


From: Gr1ff1th


An interesting update concerning the True Velocity/GD/Lonestar NGSW, apparently they've directly acquired Lonestar future weapons, and interestingly it says there is only 2 teams left in the program although I do not know if this is actually the case, but the news says it was from True Velocity so who knows, surely we would have heard from Textron themselves or from the Army if something has happened to the Textron bid

Edit : It also says the TV/LSFW will be working on a lightweight medium machine gun in the future

  • Edited 10 November 2021 9:30  by  Gr1ff1th

From: Farmplinker


"Picatinny, we have a problem."scream