Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 521607 views.

From: roguetechie


The original virtus was In many ways the inspiration for my current AR pistol build.

So much so that my 11.5" bbl foxtrot Mike bufferless AR is actually going to wind up sporting a sig folding buffer tube knuckle (the sig folding tube to picatinny knuckle is gorgeous and gas very nice positive lockup) mated to a tailhook mod2 assembly.

Picked up a PA dot and magnifier which sit on a lower 1/3 cowitness riser and has the magnifier folding left along with the brace.

Unlike virtus it's a DI unit but it took a lot of cues from what sig did there. It should weigh somewhere between current virus weight and original virtus weight all up and my ammo of choice will fragment out to 300 meters from an 11.5" tube.

We desperately need to get back to light handy guns if for no other reason than so we can put 3 pounds of shit on them and ONLY have them weigh as much as a loaded Garand all up.


From: 17thfabn


6.8 if...... it ends up in widespread U.S. service would be a third rifle cartridge after 7.62 and 5.56 for NATO members. 

At this time NATO members can use 5.56 or 7.62. They are not forced to choose. Even if 6.8 is adopted by the U.S. , the U.S. will still continue to have weapons in 5.56 and 7.62.


From: stancrist


You seem to be missing the point.  Both 7.62 and 5.56 were "forced" (by the US) upon NATO.

NATO adopted 7.62 (over .280) due to US insistence upon a full-power, .30 caliber cartridge.

When 5.56 became the US standard rifle caliber, it in effect became a de facto NATO caliber.

The same thing will almost certainly happen if the 6.8 is fielded by the US Army as planned.


From: 17thfabn


I'll agree that 7.62 was forced on NATO by the U.S.

5.56 was an option when adopted as a second standard caliber. Many NATO allies stayed with 7.62 for years after 5.56 was an option. 

Same will be true IF... the U.S. actually adopts 6.8. The U.S. itself will keep a number of weapons in 5.56 and 7.62.   

If other NATO allies see 6.8 as filling a niche they will use it. If not they will continue on with 5.56.and 7.62.

NATO standardized on 5.7x28mm   as its PDW. The U.S. does not have a large number of weapons in this caliber, it doesn't see the need.  Other NATO countries could have stayed exclusively with 7.62 if they chose to do so. Many of them saw advantages to 5.56 so use it in some weapons as well as using 7.62 in other weapons. If they see a use for 6.8 they may chamber some weapons in that caliber also.

  • Edited 15 May 2022 23:23  by  17thfabn

From: EmericD


stancrist said:

When 5.56 became the US standard rifle caliber, it in effect became a de facto NATO caliber.

Not really. The US "5.56 mm" was the M193, and what became the second NATO calibre was the SS-109 familly, not really the same cartridge.

By the way, I shot last week a very sweet 5.56 x 40 mm round, with a bullet C7 of 0.208 launched at 945 m/s from a "pseudo Mk12" (18'' barrel).

Hitting at long range was so easy (and fast) it was like cheating.


From: autogun


Sounds like the 5.56mm FABRL*, shown below with the M193.

* originally stood for Frankford Arsenal Ballistic Research Laboratory, but that evidently didn't sound sexy enough as it was renamed Future Ammunition for Burst Rifle Launch.


From: gatnerd


EmericD said:

By the way, I shot last week a very sweet 5.56 x 40 mm round, with a bullet C7 of 0.208 launched at 945 m/s from a "pseudo Mk12" (18'' barrel).

Was this further work with your Neckless round, or just a shortened 5.56x45?


From: EmericD


autogun said:

Sounds like the 5.56mm FABRL*, shown below with the M193.

Quite close.

The cartridge started it's life as a regular 5.56x45 mm M855 from IMI, we removed the bullet, saved the powder, shortened the case by cutting most of the neck, put the powder into the case, then finally seated and crimped the new bullet (4.15 g / 64 gr).

MV was ~945 m/s from a 18'' gas-operated gun, and ~970 m/s from a 24" bolt-action rifle*.

Now, we are going to do the same thing but starting with M855A1, just to see if we can drive the same bullet at 3000 fps from a 14.5" barrel, and maintain a supersonic range of 900+m from a carbine.

*: EDIT - fired in regular 5.56x45 mm chamber.

  • Edited 16 May 2022 8:00  by  EmericD