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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 750782 views.
manimal87

From: manimal87

25-Aug

I like youre sarcasm :D

stancrist

From: stancrist

25-Aug

It was not meant to be sarcasm.

manimal87

From: manimal87

25-Aug

Oh... I've misread it... I've seen the picture of the m38. Which I mean isn`t much more than a m27 with a different optic.      

So far as I i know DMR terminology goes like that :    must be semi auto, Around 1.5 - 2 around MOA. Optic for close and longer range. Match grade ammo. Basically extends the range of Standart infantry rifle. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

25-Aug

Sounds about right, except for the "must be semi auto" part.

Note that the New Zealand army DMR is capable of full-auto.

The full-auto selector can be seen at 1:08-1:12 in this video.

manimal87

From: manimal87

25-Aug

Oh yes.... You're right..... I was aware that some of them have the fun switch too. Like mk14 variants and SVU variants. 

EmericD

From: EmericD

26-Aug

I think that the logic of the M38 and the M7 are 180° appart.

In the case of the M38, they add a scope (and a bipod) on a "high end" 5.56 mm assault rifle.

In the case of the M7, they build the system (rifle + ammo + optics) to deliver "better than DMR" performances (the 6.8x51 mm Training Practice round fired from a 13.5" barrel is already delivering better trajectory than the M118LR fired from a 20" barrel, and the trajectory of the high pressure 6.8x51 mm is close to a .338LM), then will probably downgrade the performances to "carbine level" by issuing the system without the scope.

manimal87

From: manimal87

26-Aug

Do you think that will happen if they adopt it? In the pre squad Layout with the new NGSW weapons there were just xm250 and M7 pictured.... Everyone had the same M7 rifle. (optic + Accessoires).

Do you mean in your post M7 rifle with optic for DM. And M7 without optic for rest of squad? 

Otherwise they could just issue the m4 carbine for everyone except xm250 and M7 for MG and DM. 

BTW..... Do you know if SOCOM s MRGG-A and MRGG-S project is still running? 

EmericD

From: EmericD

26-Aug

manimal87 said:

Do you mean in your post M7 rifle with optic for DM. And M7 without optic for rest of squad? 

I mean that probably not everyone will be issued a M157.

The US Army plan to acquire 100,000 M7. I don't expect the M157 to be way cheaper than 10,000 USD (the Wilcox RAPTAR-S is already 10,000 - 11,000 USD), so 10,000 USD x 100,000 = 1 billion of USD for optics.

You can expect to break around 2 scopes / 1000 / year, so around 2 million of USD per year to replace the scopes broken beyond repair, and probably 3-4 million to maintain those that could be repaired.

One M157 in every fire team will probably be enough, for example I don't think that the grenadier will use the M157 very much.

manimal87 said:

Otherwise they could just issue the m4 carbine for everyone except xm250 and M7 for MG and DM. 

And have to field 5.56 mm and 6.8 mm cartridges at the fire team level? Probably no.

The purpose of the 6.8 mm is to be able to defeat armor plates, you don't need a fancy scope to do that between 0 and 200 m.

VPMudde

From: VPMudde

26-Aug

EmericD said:

One M157 in every fire team will probably be enough, for example I don't think that the grenadier will use the M157 very much.

The one squad member with the M157 can call out ranges to the rest of the squad, who can then use their own optics to, at the least, deliver accurate suppressive fire.

stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Aug

EmericD said:

I mean that probably not everyone will be issued a M157.  One M157 in every fire team will probably be enough...

It seems the Army does not agree.

"...the XM157 Fire Control optic produced by Vortex Optics Inc., which will be mounted on every XM7 Rifle and XM250 Automatic Rifle."

Army moving forward with Next Generation Squad Weapon program | Article | The United States Army

  • Edited 26 August 2023 12:33  by  stancrist
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