Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by gatnerd

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW evaluation update   Small Arms <20mm

Started 31/7/20 by autogun; 16555 views.

From: nincomp


smg762 said...

Also whats the energies of the 277 it about 2000ft  lbs like the 7mm-08?

No, considerably more. We have seen numbers of 3000fps with a 135 grain bullet, so closer to 2700ft-lbs, which makes it more like a 270 WSM.  The goal is to penetrate hard body armor at several hundred meters, 600 iirc.  It is to have a suppressor.  As near as I can tell, other goals included less recoil than a .22 rimfire, lighter weight than the average feather, and the abilities to tie the soldiers boots and walk the General's dog.  

  • Edited 18 January 2021 12:52  by  nincomp

From: renatohm


USMC is already transitioning to widespread use of suppressors, so it's not surprising that Army could follow suit.


From: autogun


gatnerd said:

SIG's base is Stainless Steel, then the body of the case is brass.

I should know better than to rely on my memory these days... rage

In reply toRe: msg 107

From: stancrist


True Velocity Ammo: 6.8 TVCM Composite-Cased Ammo

Ever seen a composite-cased ammo full-auto pew fest? Neither have we...until now. Enter True Velocity. RECOILtv is now supported on all of your favorite plat...


From: Red7272


I remember thinking that Emeric's neckless polymer case from a decade or so ago was the way to go and seeing it realised I still think that. Enough in common with existing designs to not frighten the conservatives (like me) and a significant improvement in performance. 


From: gatnerd


Great find Stan.

So that seems to confirm that the TV 6.8 can be pretty easily adapted to existing 7.62 weapons. 

That is can be adapted to the lightweight, Constant Recoil KAC AMG is especially promising.

Assuming weapon and cartridge perform as good as they look, that would be a hell of a combination. 

In reply toRe: msg 110

From: gatnerd


Well its confirmed.

SIG's "20% lighter" is lawyering the contract; 23% lighter then .270 WSM brass...

  • Edited 27 January 2021 11:20  by  gatnerd

From: taschoene


If that's actually compliant to the RFP, it's only because the RFP was shockingly badly written.  It should never have been defined as "20% lighter" unless there was an actual baseline cartridge to compare against that was actually in service use, like 7.62x51.

In reply toRe: msg 112

From: nincomp


"So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view." - Obi Wan Kenobi,  Star Wars: Return of the Jedi


From: JesseH1234


The whole thing just seems insane to me.  Or maybe I am nuts, who knows. 

7.62x51 is already losing a fair bit of velocity shooting out of a 16" barrel.  Cranking the pressure to 80k psi means you are probably losing a crapton of velocity out of a 16" barrel.  Maybe I am doing the math wrong, but a 16"/40cm barrel of 6.8mm caliber is going to have an internal volume of roughly ~14.5cm3.  Assuming the same case capacity as .308, 3.6cm3, that is only 4x the volume of the case, 5x including the case itself.  So even assuming an ultra fast burning powder to achieve that 80kpsi, all the combustion happening in the case itself, you are still going to have an exit gas pressure of 1/5 of that, or 16,000psi.... which if I recall correctly is like a 6-8" barrel on a 5.56, and we know how efficient and pleasant that is. 

Plus that pressure has got to heat up barrels fast, and I bet the cookoff threshold is going to be super low.  It will be loud as hell, and yeah you can mount a suppressor but that only exacerbates the heating problem: there is much more internal surface area absorbing heat vs external surface area radiating it.  And how much suppressor would be required to get the sound down to the level of a naked 20" 5.56 exiting at 4-5k psi.....I'm tired of math though. 

All this for something not producing any more energy than than a 70 year old AR-10, with close ballistics to .308 (at least with good ammo), and saving maybe a pound-ish of ammunition weight per soldier load, maybe less vs. steel case .308.  It seems utterly bananas to me, other than as a way to spend a lot of money, then get some people killed, then time to spend some money again.