autogun

Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by autogun

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons, particularly in larger calibres (12.7+mm).

  • 3175
    MEMBERS
  • 180422
    MESSAGES
  • 1
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

NGSW evaluation update   Small Arms <20mm

Started 31-Jul by autogun; 9607 views.
RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

31-Jul

I’d like the look of the GD one more if they hadn’t stuck a potato on the front of it.

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

31-Jul

Agreed, though the Brevis is one of the best suppressors out there. The RM277 would just look so much better with an OSS.

  • Edited 31 July 2020 9:54  by  QuintusO
Moose (Beomoose)

From: Moose (Beomoose)

31-Jul

Wonder if a more Photoshop-inclined poster could 'shop the Smuzzle onto GD's weapon to give us an idea of what that combo would look like.

nincomp

From: nincomp

31-Jul

RovingPedant said...

I’d like the look of the GD one more if they hadn’t stuck a potato on the front of it.

Think of it as clever camouflage.  I mean, who feels threatened when they see a potato aimed at them? :)

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

31-Jul

"I can't believe I'm rooting for the bullpup"was a good one.

And I agree with you.

stancrist

From: stancrist

31-Jul

RovingPedant said:

I’d like the look of the GD one more if they hadn’t stuck a potato on the front of it.

Ditto.  But, a more visually-appealing suppressor wouldn't help with other aspects of the design.

- Bullpup configuration.

- Stock not adjustable for LOP.

- Magazine-fed automatic rifle.

I may be proven wrong, but I just don't see the US Army adopting a bullpup rifle, let alone going back to WWII firepower standards with a squad auto fed by 20-round magazines.

M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) - YouTube

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

31-Jul

"I may be proven wrong, but I just don't see the US Army adopting a bullpup rifle, let alone going back to WWII firepower standards with a squad auto fed by 20-round magazines."

When I talked to TV at SHOT last year, they mentioned that the .277TV can be adapted to other weapons fairly easily; specifically the SIG 6.8 LMG. 

As such, I could see a situation where the GD bullpup is selected for the rifle, while the SIG 6.8 LMG is selected, but chambered in the same .277TV. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

1-Aug

gatnerd said:

I could see a situation where the GD bullpup is selected for the rifle, while the SIG 6.8 LMG is selected, but chambered in the same .277TV.

That is possible, but -- to quote from the article -- “Right now, the plan is to choose the rifle and automatic rifle from the same vendor."

autogun

From: autogun

1-Aug

There are some interesting wrinkles in the question of swapping around between guns and ammo. As I understand it, the longer barrels of the GD bullpups mean that their TV ammo can achieve the same performance at lower chamber pressures. The SIG's ammo is therefore likely to have a hotter loading, which the GD might not do so well with. OTOH, the TV ammo might not deliver the performance required if used in the short-barrelled SIG carbine. The CT gun and ammo designs are of course incompatible with everything.

Interesting that they are still saying nothing about the MV requirement (in fact, they no longer seem to be mentioning any body armour penetration requirement, even though that was supposed to be the main driver). The interior ballisticians among you will have to keep your calculators on stand-by for a bit longer!

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

1-Aug

autogun said:

There are some interesting wrinkles in the question of swapping around between guns and ammo. As I understand it, the longer barrels of the GD bullpups mean that their TV ammo can achieve the same performance at lower chamber pressures. The SIG's ammo is therefore likely to have a hotter loading, which the GD might not do so well with. OTOH, the TV ammo might not deliver the performance required if used in the short-barrelled SIG carbine. The CT gun and ammo designs are of course incompatible with everything. Interesting that they are still saying nothing about the MV requirement (in fact, they no longer seem to be mentioning any body armour penetration requirement, even though that was supposed to be the main driver). The interior ballisticians among you will have to keep your calculators on stand-by for a bit longer!

Yes, the (likely) lower pressure of the .277 TV is why I see the .277 Bullpup + TV case + SIG 6.8 LMG as the most likely crossover. 

-Lightweight cartridge ( ~15.5g TV vs 21g for SIG)

-3,000fps ballistics from carbine (vs 2850fps for SIG carbine with SIG ammo)

-SIG 6.8 provides belt fed LMG ability (vs absurd 20rd box fed of GD)

The 6.8 LMG would need to have its barrel lengthened from 16" to 20", which is not ideal. However, given the length of the SIG suppressor, vs the shortness of the Brevis used by GD, I suspect the overall length increase to be below the 4" barrel change. 

Whereas, with the lower pressure, using the .277 TV as a crossover with the SIG Carbine seems very unlikely, as it would likely not get enough velocity from the SIG's 13" barrel. 

TOP