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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons, particularly in larger calibres (12.7+mm).

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NGSW evaluation update   Small Arms <20mm

Started 31-Jul by autogun; 7537 views.
In reply toRe: msg 73
poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

9-Oct

No smuzzle!!!

EmericD

From: EmericD

9-Oct

poliorcetes said:

No new supressor. But look at the recoil

And the heat!

After 20 rounds, there's smoke everywhere.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

9-Oct

Absolutelly. But if you have a non-smuzzle suppressor, with the alledged specs of the new cartridge they are going to produce a lot of returning smoke and accumulate heat

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

9-Oct

Yes it looks pretty good. Cyclic rate looks like it was kept down to 600 or so. Looks like they pulled some weight out, also, maybe. But it's still a chunky hunk of aluminum. Saving grace appears to be minimal steel moving parts, so they're lighter than they look.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

9-Oct

Rifle seems to have a less kicker recoil than a DMR in .308, even without smuzzle . Do you think it will be good enough for rapid semiauto fire?

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

9-Oct

Shooting the suppressor wet maybe?

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

9-Oct

I can shoot a Portuguese AR-10 (which is perhaps the .308 with the most recoil) in rapid fire on semiauto so that's not quite the right metric.

The recoil we're seeing in the promo videos is pretty admirable. I wasn't convinced the Textron gun would have good recoil characteristics (it's very easy to "fake" low recoil, and if you don't believe me watch any video of someone manhandling an FAL, like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOxntuXpfdM) until the Tactical Rifleman video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOxntuXpfdM

It's very tricky to get recoil right. Boiling it down to cartridge recoil energy is too simplistic. It depends a lot on the rate of fire and the kinematics and ergonomics of the gun itself. What we see at 10:35 in that video is the gun being shot in what is really not a very good position (on the bench yes, but no forward hold) for full auto, and it does quite well, even without a smuzzle. So I'm encouraged on that front.

My primary concerns right now are rifle system weight, ammunition bulk, and that the Army seems determined to adopt another goddamned belt fed to replace the SAW.
 

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

10-Oct

I think that the only really decissive factor is cartridge technology and form factor. On the one hand, either backwards extraction is going to be maintained or not. On the other hand, there is going to be a limit for pressure growth or other. FInally is the weight saving

Beretta / GD vocalism on bullpup as a solution for achieving muzzle energy without needing a meaningful pressure leap makes me assume that true velocity solution is not optimal for pressure increasing. They conserve backward extraction and the cartridge wastes a little bit of volume both for magazine and for logistics storage

Textron is an all-in solution, the less compromised one. If the main problems are solved for assault rifle, I would assume than the less compromised is a solution, the bigger growth margin it has.

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

10-Oct

poliorcetes said:

I think that the only really decissive factor is cartridge technology and form factor.

I mean that's clearly not true. They can get everything else right, and the program will still be a failure if they've made significant enough errors in the fundamental parameters.

 

poliorcetes said:

FInally is the weight saving

Which is a lie.

poliorcetes said:

Beretta / GD vocalism on bullpup as a solution for achieving muzzle energy without needing a meaningful pressure leap makes me assume that true velocity solution is not optimal for pressure increasing.

It's not, but CT isn't optimal in other ways. For example, cartridge mass.

poliorcetes said:

Textron is an all-in solution, the less compromised one. If the main problems are solved for assault rifle, I would assume than the less compromised is a solution, the bigger growth margin it has.

If the main problems are solved.

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