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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons, particularly in larger calibres (12.7+mm).

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What is the US Army up to?   Ammunition <20mm

Started 8-Aug by autogun; 4121 views.
autogun

From: autogun

8-Aug

Not satisfied with developing 6.8 mm ammo in three different forms for the NGSW, they are simultaneously running a "next generation carbine" programme in 7.62 x 51. Is this just a fallback in case the 6.8 mm goes TU?

Add to that the 6.5 mm Creedmoor for SOCOM...

EmericD

From: EmericD

8-Aug

I remembered that at a time (2018 or 2019?) the US Army launched a program for a 7.62x51 mm carbine that went nowhere in less than 2 months, maybe they keep this part of the program alive in order to issue improved 7.62 mm ammo for their fleet of M110 and M110A1?

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

8-Aug

NGCT has been around for a few years, and as far as I can tell it is an umbrella research program that absorbed a lot of the smaller research programs like the in house lightweight cased ammunition effort. 



It's important to point out that the name is Next Generation Carbine Technologies, which shows it's a research effort exploring various things that could subsequently be applied to future carbines, not a program to produce a next generation carbine.

  • Edited 08 August 2020 11:48  by  QuintusO
stancrist

From: stancrist

8-Aug

autogun said:

Is this just a fallback in case the 6.8 mm goes TU?

Perhaps the cartridge case technology currently being developed in 7.62x51 could offer a fallback alternative to the TV and/or SIG NGSW cartridge case designs?

"This suite of ammunition utilizes a specialized alloy cartridge case allowing for elevated chamber pressures and a reduction in ammunition weight as compared to legacy brass-cased ammunition."

  • Edited 08 August 2020 12:57  by  stancrist
Jeff (Jefffar)

From: Jeff (Jefffar)

8-Aug

EmericD said:

I remembered that at a time (2018 or 2019?) the US Army launched a program for a 7.62x51 mm carbine that went nowhere in less than 2 months, maybe they keep this part of the program alive in order to issue improved 7.62 mm ammo for their fleet of M110 and M110A1?

Not to mention a heck of a lot of M240s that are not a part of NGSW.

Also, there may be a concern that even if the NGSW goes through to full deployment, it might not be ready in time for a potential client.  Improved ammo for existing weapons is a lot faster to get into the field than entirely new weapons and ammunition system. 

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

8-Aug

No problem!

Greg (N9NWO)

From: Greg (N9NWO)

18-Aug

I noticed back during the XM8 competition that the Army never has a new weapon system unless there is a new cartridge.  The one exception was the M1 Garand.   

What the NGSW is doing is providing the bullet in 6.8m of 140 gn.  Each of the three "teams" is expected to provide a new cartridge, infantry rifle and squad automatic weapon.  Thus we have three competing systems.  One of those systems, or parts of all three systems, will be the next cartridge, rifle and SAW.  This will happen in 2022.

The question is what to do with the millions of M4s in the system.  If we replace the upper receiver with a gas piston design (rather then direct impingement) then no need for a buffer tube and thus we could have a folding stock.  What cartridge then works best?  300 BLK (7.62x35), 6.8 SPC or something else that would work in a short barreled PDW (9 to 11").  This would replace the 9mm pistol.

RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

18-Aug

N9NWO said...

The question is what to do with the millions of M4s in the system.

Keep them in 5.56mm and use them until they wear out and are replaced?

Use the new rifles on the front line and either expand that until it’s general issue or maintain the old rifles as second line equipment?

Greg (N9NWO)

From: Greg (N9NWO)

18-Aug

much of the support troops do not need an infantry rifle.  However a pistol is too under powered.  Thus a folding stock PDW with short barrel that could hit out to 300 m would be a better option.

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