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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons, particularly in larger calibres (12.7+mm).

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LMAO Germany adopts an AR-15   Small Arms <20mm

Started 14-Sep by QuintusO; 4587 views.
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

14-Sep

Hanel MR556 looks like its only slightly evolved Caracal 816 (developed and Manufactured in Germany before UAE production was set up to avoid ITAR limitations of german arms) Carcal816 was designed to fit a spec M16 lower, the designers Robert Hirt and Christopher Sirois , Hirt if i remember correctly designed the H&K 416, and later with Sirois  Sig MPX , both worked on Carcal 816 ,i am not quite certain what is meant by they have a replaceable Cam Pin Recess/Cam Path and charging handle raceway to prolong the firearm lifecycle up 80k-120k rounds.

UAE CArcal group owns the 'East German' C. G. Haenel  ,Haenel in its time manufactured STG44, AK47, and now an AR evolution.

Also notable that Haenel won some police tenders with its Semi auto version CR556 and rifles were removed from service in less than two months due to poor reliability. The civilian CR-556 is just about the cheapest piston AR on the German market. When you read the announcement you come to the economical reasoning ' Wirtschaftlichkeitsbegründung' „Always remember your rifle was made by the lowest bidder.“ 

'Haenel Mk556 seems to be the best clone of HK 416 and the cheapest one, but still i am baffled by the choice to even consider a non folding stock rifle for a fully mechanized military that also has relatively small IFVs  (Puma interior space is very low compared to many other IFVs) 

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

14-Sep

Thousands of pellet guns shoot straighter now that their younger brother is in the Army....kissing_heart

tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

15-Sep

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

replaceable Cam Pin Recess/Cam Path

Where is this mentionied?
do you think it has anything to do with the metal piece (with "Virtus" written on it) which is bolted on the left side of the receiver on MCX/MPX?
Because it's where the locking recess is located on an AR

tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

15-Sep

Does Haenel/Caracal Group still somehow related to the HK or are they both completely different company?

In reply toRe: msg 6
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

15-Sep

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/09/14/breaking-c-g-haenel-wins-tender-for-the-german-g36-successor/

Very surprised they beat out the HK416. 

While not perfect, the 416 is at this point a proven platform with a number of happy users, and per Emeric, has a superb barrel with a long service life. 

https://soldiersystems.net/2020/09/14/german-bundeswehr-selects-cg-haenels-mk556-carbine-to-replace-hk-g36/

The MK556 beat out the new Heckler & Koch HK433 which was developed specifically for this tender after the German government told H&K that their existing HK416 (adopted by the German Kommando Spezialkräfte or, Special Forces) was too expensive.

Interestingly enough, Haenel part of the Merkel Group, which is under Tawazun Holding (United Arab Emirates) (Caracal). So the Bundeswehr is essentially getting a lower cost HK416.

From the comments:

There were two engineers that after the HK416 went to Sig to produce the 516 with lessons learned from the 416. After that, they were hired by Caracal to make the penultimate piston carbine- the 816 as well as the facility that they’re manufactured in.

--> MK556 reportedly based on Caracal C816, overview begins 3:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLghlFV_sL4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAR_816

The Caracal CAR 816 shares lineage to the Heckler & Koch HK416. The principal firearms engineers for the CAR 816 were Robert Hirt and Chris Sirois. Hirt was instrumental in the development of the HK416. Following his time with H&K, Hirt was recruited by SIG Sauer to work with then SIG engineer Chris Sirois on an improved version of the HK416: the SIG Sauer SIG516. Hirt and Siriois were then recruited by Caracal to develop a rifle that was superior to both the HK416 and SIG516. From this, the CAR 816 was created.

Manufactured locally under Licence by C. G. Haenel

  • Edited 15 September 2020 4:59  by  gatnerd
QuintusO

From: QuintusO

15-Sep

The designers hopped around.

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

15-Sep

That's a replaceable cam stop yes. I don't know if the Haenel has it but those guns were designed by the same people

tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

15-Sep

I think Haenel MK556 is indeed has that replacable cam recess thingy, judging by this image. You can see a bolted metal piece on the left side of the upper,  though it appears to be smaller than the one on the MCX,.

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