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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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LMAO Germany adopts an AR-15   Small Arms <20mm

Started 14/9/20 by QuintusO; 43187 views.
In reply toRe: msg 47
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

9/10/20

It seems the case is not as clear cut as it seemed, I am sure H&K put all its lobying might behind this but,in addtion to the patent stuff ,some of the results of the testing just don't add up, like Haenel having 7% better penetration than HK using the same barrel length and ammo.?

JPeelen

From: JPeelen

9/10/20

What was officialy withdrawn, is the formal letter informing Haenel about the intention to accept its offer. 

The declared reason for this is information in the protest by Heckler & Koch which indicates to BAAIN plausible reason to suspect that the Haenel offer could contain a patent infringement. 

Unofficially it is reported that the infringed patent in question is held by Magpul and Haenel's magazine contractor is the culprit.

I cannot resist to remind readers that G3 procurement was also accompanied by patent problems, in that case Mauser, Rheinmetall (licensed by Grossfuss) and Heckler & Koch. That problem was solved by a Gentlemens Agreement, basically by assigning compensation contracts to Rheinmetall and Mauser. Which was quite easy in a fast growing Bundeswehr. Today, lack of gentlemen both, in industry (greed out of bounds) and in administration (avoid taking responsibility at all cost) makes a similar solution unthinkable.   

  • Edited 09 October 2020 15:01  by  JPeelen
poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

9/10/20

How do you feel after foreseeing what was going to happen with minutiae patent agression?

Red7272

From: Red7272

9/10/20

poliorcetes said:

Over a basic 60 years old design. Even SIG could participate in it ROFL

In case anyone needs more evidence of how intellectually destitute the arms industries of France, UK, Germany and the US are. Poland and Austria, Italy and the Czechs though. . .  

autogun

From: autogun

9/10/20

Red7272 said:

In case anyone needs more evidence of how intellectually destitute the arms industries of France, UK, Germany and the US are.

The small-arms industries of France and the UK are not "intellectually destitute" - they are non-existent.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

9/10/20

Honestly of all the patent crossbreeding  in H&K ,SIG and Hanel i did not expect an Oberland arms magazine patent 'infringment' to be the one they trip on.

I guess its time ,as initialy Magpul did not jump on the OA for their OA  G-MAG that syles itself like Pmag knockoff ,considering this infringment is well over decade old i do wonder if Magpul can realy get much done against OA

''I asked Magpul if they plan on taking legal action. They responded by saying that they have no licensing agreement with OA, but that they said they don’t plan on taking legal action against them. My guess is that the court costs of fighting a legal battle overseas would be expensive. I have no doubt that if Oberland Arms ever establishes a legal presence in the USA, Magpul would be all over them in an instant!''

Cerberus GMBH making the G-mag is part of Oberland Arms group

G-MAG vs PMAG

Following the German news, this resulted in considerable political fallout, its a second or third acquisition project in a row that blew up in smoke (F 18E Superhornet buy for nuclear delivery,new heavy lift cargo helicopter and now the rifle that even tough it peanuts in terms of funds is considered the prestige project in BW) all projects seem to have plenty of wishful thinking in the demands military put forward resulting in either no product meeting demands or goldplated prices or both. 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

9/10/20

Wow, that is very P-magy.

Surprised they didn't license the design, or partner with Magpul, given that magpul has a number of foreign partners. 

Or at a minimum, just change the external grip surface and magazine cover to a less obvious 'homage' to the PMAG. 

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

9/10/20

Maybe call the large bore double rifles "anti-material" since they were tried as anti-tank guns in WW1?

In reply toRe: msg 20
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

10/10/20

Seems there are also some doubts Hanael could even handle the production.

''Zudem gibt es mittlerweile erhebliche Zweifel, dass Hanel dieses Gewehr in Deutschland produzieren kann''.

In addition the tender for DMR for SF/Feldjäger G26 was just stopped as well. A small tender (10 prototypes and 135 service firearms and 500.000 rounds of ammo) but i can imagine similar players and issues 

''Das Bundesamt für Ausrüstung, Informationstechnik und Nutzung der Bundeswehr (BAAINBw) hat die Ausschreibung für das Projekt G26 „Scharfschützengewehr kurze Reichweite für SpezKr/Feldjäger“ – eine Präzisionswaffe im Kaliber 7,62 mm x 51 – abgebrochen...

''

Kurzfassung der Konstruktionsmerkmale

  • Kaliber 7,62 mm x 51 NATO,
  • Halbautomatischer Gasdrucklader, semi auto gas operated
  • Beidseitige Bedienbarkeit, ambidextreus
  • Mündungsbremse, Muzzlebrake
  • Signaturdämpfersatz, bestehend aus Signaturdämpfer kompakt, Signaturdämpfer Unterschall, Signaturdämpfer Training,  Suppresors compact and subsonic model +training
  • STANAG 4694 Schienen an Handschutz und Waffenoberseite, Rails alround
  • Länge ohne Mündungsbremse und mit eingeschobener Schulterstütze maximal 900 mm, Max lenght 900mm with the muzzlebrake and stock in shortest setting
  • Einsatz in Gebieten mit den Klimakategorien A 1-3, B 1-3, C 1-2* und M 1-3 gemäß STANAG 4370 ohne Einschränkung der Funktionalität; *Mit Einschränkung der Batterielebensdauern, Operationaly effective in Climate zones A1-3,B1-2,C1-2 M1-3 without any limitations.(*aside from battery life) 
  • Lebensdauer des Gehäuses mindestens 6000 Schuss; Lebensdauer des Rohres mindestens 6000 Schuss, minimal 6000 round reciever and barrel life.
  • Maximal 4,5 kg Gesamtgewicht Waffe ohne Mündungsbremse, Visiereinrichtung und Zubehör, mit Montageschienen und leerem Magazin (10 Schuss), Max 4.5kg empty with empty mag,without muzzlebrake , sights and accesories
  • Zubehör: Magazine 10 Schuss, Magazine 20 Schuss, Reinigungsgerät, Hülsenfangsack, Ladelehren, Schnittmodell, Sonderwerkzeugsätze, Drehmomentsätze. 
  • Sonstige wichtige Merkmale: Farbgebung Grau (Sniper grau), Verstellbare Gasabnahme, 
    Munitionserstpakete für Integrierte Nachweisführung sowie Serie
    Important features Sniper Gray color , adjustable gas block.Innitial Ammo batches for testing and service 

Evaluation testing would be done with 5 test arms and 20.000 rounds of ammo

Even before this realy kicked off there were concerns within the BW that 6.5 Creedmoor DMR should be considered instead of 7.62x51

In reply toRe: msg 41
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

27/10/20

It seems that Magpul magazine clone is not the only patent issue H&K is questioning the other one is patents concerning the solutions for 'over the beach' capability of the HK arms that Haenel is supposedly infringing upon. 

https://soldat-und-technik.de/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/2020-10-26-Anlage-zur-PM-Nr-38.pdf

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