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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons, particularly in larger calibres (12.7+mm).

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50 cal MG with multi-lug rotating bolt mechanism   General Military Discussion

Started 21-Sep by tidusyuki; 2005 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

24-Sep

I'd rather we focus on a lighter AGL with airburst capability then a lighter .50 HMG. 

Its already enough of a pain in the ass to lug a M240 + Tripod to a destination; not really sure what we'd actually end up doing with a lightweight, man portable .50? 

Going by Max's numbers:

Kord w/ Bipod + 50 rounds = 43kg / 94lbs 

You could employ any number of far more useful weapons with that amount of weight:

Barret M82A1 w/ Optic + 15x 10rd mags = 93.3

.338 LWMMG w/ Optic + Tripod + 500rds = 104lbs 

M4 Carl Gustav w/ Aimpoint FCU + 11x HE441D Airburst = 93lbs

Javelin FCU + 2x Javelin Missiles = 84lbs 

3x Milkor 40mm's w/ FCU's + 72 40x51 Airburst = 96lbs

etc

  • Edited 24 September 2020 5:05  by  gatnerd
roguetechie

From: roguetechie

24-Sep

Implying that the KORD is the lightest 12.7x108 gun readily available... It's not, it's actually quite heavy compared to more than one Chinese 12.7x108 gun.

And the Chinese are pretty well known for selling stuff to anyone with the cash.

There's also the whole Chinese and Russian AGL situation where the ags-17/30 qlz87 and qbz05 or whatever are significantly lighter and more portable than anything we have.

The argument of one but not the other would be more ok if we weren't kinda iffy in both spaces.

A genuine case can be made that both are needed tbh.

The other day I ran across a very interesting pair of polish 40x47 very man portable AGL's meant to use essentially a 40x46 but with a flange to prevent use in UGL's that had the MV doubled from 85 to 170 mps and were very decently light weight.

There was the M and S version. One heavier one with 7 round box mags and the other with a compact 5 round detachable tube mag. It increased range from 430 meters to around 1 km. The systems as they are were non starters but would make an interesting place to start from

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

24-Sep

To add insult to injury, the MAC LLC cases have a direct brass connection between the primer and propellant and the chamber wall. And there's less brass to soak up thermal energy. We call that a heat sink. ;)

Red7272

From: Red7272

24-Sep

gatnerd said:

Kord w/ Bipod + 50 rounds = 43kg / 94lbs 

Kord has a scope and is available in a number of mounts and roles. Ammo is cheap by comparison to your alternatives and it gets the job it's designed for done. The AGS 30 is always widely available and does everything it can't.

Comparing it to less capable guns and pretending there is some sort of hard limit on how much ammo they will have doesn't change that.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

24-Sep

Red7272 said:

Comparing it to less capable guns and pretending there is some sort of hard limit on how much ammo they will have doesn't change that.

I was originally going to compare it with 200rds, but that made the situation even more absurd for dismounted operations.

32kg + 4x11kg = 167lbs 

The point is not to besmirch the honor of the Kord, but rather point our the impracticality of using a 50bmg for dismounted infantry operations. 

Hence why there is no pressing need for the West to close the 'lightweight 50 gap.' 

The AGS30, by comparison, is awesome and extremely useful, and a Western equivalent should have been a top priority to develop over the last 20 years. 

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

24-Sep

I think the Mk. 47 fills that niche.

And I agree with the boss here; you need a lightweight. 50, get a Barrett.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

25-Sep

Dismounted operations are not #1 option for Kord-12.7 use. Originally bipod mount was designed for vehicular use. Hoever, for limited warfare scenarios it allows to move gun faster and place it on less likely positions, i.e. bring it to the high floors to fire through the windows  or from rooftops in the MOUT to pour some 12.7mm love from above or have wider filed of fire.

For example, you can have the Kord as a primary armament on a 4x4, and once you near your objective or if otherwise demanded by a tactical situation you can dismount it and lug around to place it where it is needed most.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25-Sep

Yes, I can see how that would be handy, and improves the versatility over the M2 browning. 

The .338 LWMMG shares a similar rationale; a vehicle mounted gun that can be handily dismounted to use off the vehicle. 

My point was not to disparage the Kord, which I think is a cool design. Rather it was to point out why the US has not felt a pressing need to replace the M2 with a lightweight .50. 

Namely that a lightweight .50 is still far from lightweight, and would offer a pretty limited increase in utility vs just keeping the M2's we already have, and that if there are a number of alternative 'lightweight heavy weapons' that could be used instead for dismounted operations requiring more punch then 7.62 GPMG. 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25-Sep

roguetechie said:

The other day I ran across a very interesting pair of polish 40x47 very man portable AGL's meant to use essentially a 40x46 but with a flange to prevent use in UGL's that had the MV doubled from 85 to 170 mps and were very decently light weight.

Those are really neat looking.

Whats the name and specs of that AGL?

In reply toRe: msg 29
autogun

From: autogun

25-Sep

If you want to swot up on grenades and their launchers, there's a fairly comprehensive guide HERE.

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