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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons, particularly in larger calibres (12.7+mm).

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Doubt about AK-12 design   Small Arms <20mm

Started 10-Oct by poliorcetes; 2552 views.
poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

11-Oct

Thanks for your answers, Maxim.

Quoting from your text:

> A decision ultimately was made to retire the failed design and its chief designer, and to get back to work developing a weapon that would be better suited to existing manufacturing processes

Is K. Concern trapped on AK production line? I mean, AFAIK AK-74M production lines are really mature and well established and they are based on huge mass production. Was a change on such lines a too impractical effort? 

 

Red7272

From: Red7272

11-Oct

poliorcetes said:

Is K. Concern trapped on AK production line? I mean, AFAIK AK-74M production lines are really mature and well established and they are based on huge mass production. Was a change on such lines a too impractical effort? 

The AK-12 has advanced a lot from the Ak-74m, but when there is nothing wrong with the round or the gun there is not really any pressure to do things differently.

tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

12-Oct

I see. Such a shame. What's your opinion about the A545?

Also mind explaining how the 2 round burst on the AK12 works? i'm curious how the fcg looks like.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

12-Oct

A545 is a nice rifle, however only real life use could show if all that added complication and cost is worth the added effectiveness in automatic fire, which, according to all historical documents is not that big.

as for AK-12, I never get down to details of its trigger group, and in all honesty i hope that military would drop the 2-rd mode as soon as possible.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

12-Oct

Twice the cost the DOD pays for an m4a1 is not what I'd call super cheap.

Also, I HEAVILY beg to differ on a 4 moa gun being "good enough".

 The serbs are the ones doing aluminum uppers not the Russians btw.

I wish you would take some time to actually get some of your information straight if you are going to posture as authoritatively as you tend to.

It would greatly help the signal to noise ratio of your posts

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

12-Oct

The pics i posted are from Kalashnikov Concern not from Zastava arms Serbia. And the top part looks like it might be aluminum with steel rail riveted in (material looks to thick to be steel)

AKs are far cheaper than DOD pays for M4a1, civilian Saiga clones used to cost about us 400-500$ in shops on European civilian market ( i bought one SAIGA-MK M3 EXP-01 7-8y ago) before the sanctions, that is after 2-3 dealers and 20% VAT ,so would expect AK100 series to be cheaper in bulk , Saiga and 100 series guns are not that dissimilar .

That civilian Saiga  in 5.56 could easily do 3moa with cheap Barnaul ammo so its not unreasonable to asume the AK100series or follow on designs to do the same.

Speaking of noise I would class your post as just such. You getting fired up over nothing

Red7272

From: Red7272

12-Oct

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

The pics i posted are from Kalashnikov Concern not from Zastava arms Serbia. And the top part looks like it might be aluminum with steel rail riveted in (material looks to thick to be steel)

Agree. A CNC could make a bunch of those easily and modifying them is much simpler than steel. As noted previously though I expect the final design to be steel. 

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

AKs are far cheaper than DOD pays for M4a1

And infinitely more reliable. 

nincomp

From: nincomp

12-Oct

In the early 2000's Saiga 7.62x39's went for $199 in the US.  In fact it cost the same as a HiPoint 9mm carbine.  I was looking for the least expensive semi-auto carbines on the market at the time to see what kind of accuracy could be achieved with them.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

12-Oct

Kinda hints to the cost of making an AK  doesn't it. Were those the fugly hunting stock Saigas ,without pistolgrips ,with 5rd mags, fixed birdcage muzzle device and more sporting looking furniture as in those days that was what we in Eu know a B4 category , we had those in the shops as well they were 50-80$ cheaper than the  AK100 series looking clones with folding stocks  and semi proper looking muzzle brakes .

Nowadays Saigas are still on the market here but as they go trough sanction busting network of dealers they now cost closer to 1500$ .Which is a shame as i would love one of those 9mm SAIGA-9 Vitjaz clones  but at these prices there is always Scorpion Evo 

*not a Kalashnikov concern project

Folks in Russia are tinkering around some interesting concepts 

SAG Multicaliber Carbine prototype / test mule

Our try on AK/AR18 hubrid continues. AK bolt with AK carrier modified to work with short-stroke piston. upper/lower recievers and AK trigger.

nincomp

From: nincomp

12-Oct

One of the odd things about that Saiga is that the chamber has a stepped neck.  After firing, the first half of the neck is a larger diameter than the last.  I have never tried to reuse brass, but I doubt that it would resize properly.  

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