Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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XM-25 here we go again...   Army Guns 20+mm

Started 9/11/20 by autogun; 15989 views.

From: Refleks


renatohm said:

441D's SAI (Safety, Aiming, and Initiation) unit has an additional 353 g or so PBXN, bringing the total HE fill to some 948 g, or about 41.2% of the shell mass

Good catch, missed that.


From: Refleks


gatnerd said:

If it turns out that the M72 ASM is comparable in payload to the CG 84mm ASM, I'm going to officially throw Carl under the bus. Especially as the newest LAW's seem to have the option of a Fire From Enclosure variant for urban warfare, which I haven't seen for the CG.

I wouldn't throw it out just yet, they each seem to have their unique advantages. The M72 has a much shorter minimum range, which may be very useful at fireteam / squad level.  On the other hand, Carl Gustav has a larger warhead (as per renatohm's catch), ostensibly better accuracy than rocket propelled counterparts, and potentially nearly double the effective range depending on the target and ammunition.  The crew also runs it for a living, rather than maybe messing with it once in a career before combat.  If I were lobbing airbursting rounds across a valley in Afghanistan, I think you'd still want the CG. If I was being overrun by NVA armor in Vietnam mere meters away, an M72 may be the ticket.

For those reasons I think it makes sense for something like the CG to be at platoon level, with something lighter and shorter minimum range (like M72 or Bur) in the squad.

  • Edited 24 November 2020 0:34  by  Refleks

From: marielaankn


Very Informative Information in your forum


From: EmericD


gatnerd said:

A few years ago we had a 200-300 post thread on man portable HE systems. The general consensus on the 3 best bang for the buck western systems were: -Milkor M32 w/ Medium Velocity Airburst Grenades + Fire Control Unit -M72E11 Airburst Law + Fire Control Unit  And then to your point -Imortar lightweight (10lb) 60mm with Fire control unit + SAAB MAPAM 

A small derivative of a 51 mm mortar, the FLY-K / LGI :


From: gatnerd


Yes I remember that one, very neat system. The video I saw of it firing was very quiet.

Whats the actual HE/ Frag effect of them? And how are they typically deployed (ie 1 per squad? How many rounds?)

And have you tried experimenting with a FCU like the Multi Ray 800 with them?


From: Red7272


Is Eyrx still a thing. Seems like the ideal direct fire support for platoon with a MP or thermobaric warhead.


From: roguetechie


I gotta be honest, I'm a little confused by this entire topic and a bunch of the rampant and wild speculation since it's really obvious from the tfb article itself, some recent army presentations, from the solicitation itself, and from the things we know about how the xm25 1.0 saga finally wrapped up last year that clearly point to this program being a program meant for an americanski xm25 to win....

For one, the DOD now owns in-house the xm25 TDP and all the hk IP related to it.

For two, they also own a good majority of the IP that would go into producing the smart optic itself which could very likely just outright be raided from one of four currently running optic programs.

For three, the only other possible contender that might meet the requirements that they've set is a rheinmetal product that may not be done and could very likely "fall afoul" of the same "German export laws" and cause a similar situation to xm25 1.0 again!

The americanski xm25 is going to win since this is a program designed around it winning and that has eliminated the roadblocks from the previous disaster.

An Americanized 25 also fits with the broader strokes of their infantry combat master plan right now.

Finally, it appears as if this solicitation is more about giving people a Better antimateriel rifle much moreso than better HE projection capabilities.

There's other programs and work out there that's focusing on brute HE projection which the majority of things being discussed in this topic fit into much better.

And arguably from my perspective I can see why they'd want this xm25 2.0 better AMR AND other stuff for their HE projection needs.


From: stancrist


roguetechie said:

I gotta be honest, I'm a little confused by this entire topic and a bunch of the rampant and wild speculation since it's really obvious from...some recent army presentations...

Got link(s)?


From: renatohm


No worries, the document you found is a treasure!

In reply toRe: msg 127

From: Red7272


Red7272 said:

Is Eyrx still a thing. Seems like the ideal direct fire support for platoon with a MP or thermobaric warhead.

Still only 600 metre range.

Metis though has matured into a much better AT system with a thermobaric warhead option, so the Russians are ahead as usual.