Military Guns and Ammunition
Hosted by gatnerd
This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.
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XM-25 here we go again... Army Guns 20+mm
From: Red7272
17/11/20
There are some fairly practical questions that need to be addressed with metal storm or otherwise.
Will bounding grenades do? Much simpler to execute and particularly applicable to systems like metal storm where the round takes quite a pounding before being fired.
What is the minimum magazine size? I can see advantages to larger magazines for walking rounds onto a target but the largest magazines in normal usage are about 18 cm maximum, which would suggest 3/4 rounds maximum for normal usage and perhaps a 5/6 round magazine for specific purposes like the extended Russian magazines of the 5.45.
MV grenades appear to be a good candidate for a long recoil mechanism, with or without gas assistance. Even a mechanical pump action could incorporate automatic long recoil opening of the breech and mechanical closing via pump. A long recoil buffer could be worked into the metal storm design even with replaceable barrels.
From: Farmplinker
17/11/20
I've wondered about a "mini-Goose". Shoulder mounted, 40mm MV, but possibly HV, use a counter mass out the back to reduce recoil.
From: Red7272
17/11/20
Farmplinker said:I've wondered about a "mini-Goose". Shoulder mounted, 40mm MV, but possibly HV, use a counter mass out the back to reduce recoil.
That is called the BUR. No reason to persist with 40 mm with that change.
https://modernfirearms.net/en/grenade-launchers/russia-grenade-launchers/bur-eng/
From: gatnerd
17/11/20
Farmplinker said:I've wondered about a "mini-Goose". Shoulder mounted, 40mm MV, but possibly HV, use a counter mass out the back to reduce recoil
From: jxexqx
17/11/20
Does anyone remember ARPAD? I think it was swiss and fired 35mm projectile. It was fired like a LAW, resting on the shoulder - it wasn't recoilless but had a long recoil travel over the firers shoulder. I can find a few pictures on-line but most information seems to be from games rather than reality.
I know it's in one of my ancient Janes Infantry Weapons but I can't recall which . . .
- Edited 17 November 2020 16:27 by jxexqx
From: Jeff (Jefffar)
17/11/20
I think most of us have seen this video, but it deserves to be trotted out again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyAl9qK3Rlg
- Edited 17 November 2020 21:32 by Jeff (Jefffar)
From: Refleks
17/11/20
Jeff (Jefffar) said:I think most of us have seen this video, but it deserves to be trotted out again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyAl9qK3Rlg
At that same event IIRC there was a high impulse weapon system that was a single shot 40x53 HV that they mentioned shot flat enough to essentially be POA/POI out to like 300 yards. The video I saw disappeared and I haven't been able to find it, I think it was FN's prototype.
Recoil looked brutal but it seemed to have worked
*edit* found a picture of it
- Edited 17 November 2020 23:38 by Refleks
From: gatnerd
17/11/20
Found a cleared one:
And a brief write up:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/A_KICKINandapos__40MM_SYSTEM_question/5-624055/
A KICKIN' 40MM SYSTEMNever one to disappoint at Shoot-outs, FNH USA took advantage of this year's gathering to introduce the company's new 40mm High-Impulse Weapon System (HIWS), dubbed the High-Velocity 40 (HV-40). This latest addition to FNH's HIWS line is a direct-fire grenade launcher — forget lobbing rounds downrange with this weapon.
An evaluator tests the 40mm High-Impulse Weapon System by FNH USA.
-- Photo by Lloyd Francis Jr., AFJ staff
Designed for use either as a stand-alone system or mounted as a modular undercarriage launcher, the HV-40 fires both the high-velocity rounds used in MK-19 automatic grenade launchers and the low-velocity ammo designed for M-79s and M-203s. The high-velocity rounds sail out to 2,000 meters, and have an effective engagement range of 600 meters.
Last year, some readers will recall, FNH introduced AFJ evaluators to a 76mm HIWS, which made for some interesting video of evaluators losing contact with the ground as they launched 2.2-pound payloads from the 3.3-pound 76mm round. This year's half-size cousin of the 76 HIWS looked far less formidable, but still left shooters knowing they had fired something out of the ordinary.
The folks at FNH are still refining the design of the prototype, proof-of-concept HV-40 unveiled at this year's Shoot-out. The system currently weighs about 17 pounds; its target weight is 15 pounds. It's 31 inches long and, without its sight, 9.25 inches high. A three-round, magazine-fed prototype is under development.
After firing some standard 40mm high-velocity training ammo (722 fps) from this shoulder-held weapon, our noble band of evaluator-warriors have one universal recommendation for FNH: reduce the weapon's recoil. Other than that, they loved it.
"A helluva kick, but it puts the 40mm right on target!" wrote one. "Excellent accuracy. The HIWS takes the 40mm round — designed for area-suppression fire — and turns it into a precision projectile."
Noted another: "A little rough, but it's only a prototype. It provides a useful 40mm capability in a portable system. Recoil is severe, but manageable. A better stock design is needed to improve ergonomics."
"Very hard recoil; not a fun gun to shoot," said another.
From: gatnerd
18/11/20
The EX41 may be relevant; it used a 40mm grenade with a 150m/s velocity.
Thats 50% faster then the the 40x51 MV.
