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Serbia buys M19 in calibers 6.5x39 and 7.62x39   General Military Discussion

Started 25-Nov by Mr. T (MrT4); 9033 views.
Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

26-Nov

I suspect the Serb military has plenty of people who "know" "you can't trust them little bullits", just like the rest of the world.

stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Nov

Red7272 said:

Interesting departure from the usual round choices. Certainly an improvement over the 7.62x39 but inferior to the 5.45x39 as long as one stays with non fragmenting projectiles.

What is your basis for that claim?  Do you have gel tests for 6.5 Grendel with steel-core projectiles configured/constructed like 5.45 bullets?

  • Edited 26 November 2020 17:01  by  stancrist
stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Nov

autogun said:

The performance does seem a bit high if this round really is the same size as a Grendel. I wonder what the chamber pressure and barrel length are?

The velocity figures in the article are for 6.5 Grendel loadings listed on the Prvi website:  https://www.prvipartizan.com/rifle_ammo.php

     Barrel length -- 24" / 610mm

In reply toRe: msg 9
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Nov

Probably the best application for the 6.5 Grendel is in a 12.5" barrel SBR. Velocity for a 123gr is 2200-2300fps depending on load - within ~150fps of the 18" barrel. 

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Suppressed-6-5-Grendel-Velocity-Tests-10-Factory-Loads-From-12-5-and-18-Barrels/16-728810/

This would give a very short and handy carbine that still has very respectable long range performance relative to its size, and without the awful blast associated with other SBR's due to the lower chamber pressure and wider swept bore. 

No doubt a purpose designed new cartridge could perform better. But of existing cartridges 6.5 Grendel seems the most capable SBR (sub 14.5") barrel cartridge. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Nov

gatnerd said:

This would give a very short and handy carbine that still has very respectable long range performance relative to its size, and without the awful blast associated with other SBR's...

Color me skeptical.  Is it proven that a 6.5 Grendel SBR does not also have an awful muzzle blast, or are you just assuming that to be the case?

gatnerd said:

No doubt a purpose designed new cartridge could perform better. But of existing cartridges 6.5 Grendel seems the most capable SBR (sub 14.5") barrel cartridge.

Perhaps, but I can't help but wonder how 6.5 Grendel compares to 6.8 SPC and Shoffner's 6.5x40,

Red7272

From: Red7272

26-Nov

stancrist said:

What is your basis for that claim?  Do you have gel tests for 6.5 Grendel with steel-core projectiles configured/constructed like 5.45 bullets?

A 50% heavier round with 50% more recoil? It's up the that round to prove it's performance. Particularly since a 5.45 loaded to the same pressures as the the Execution-484 round would top 950 mps with a 3.5 gram 5.45 projectile.

stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Nov

So, you don't actually know -- or have any test data to prove -- that terminal effects of 6.5 Grendel would be inferior to 5.45x39, you're just assuming it would.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Nov

stancrist said:

Color me skeptical.  Is it proven that a 6.5 Grendel SBR does not also have an awful muzzle blast, or are you just assuming that to be the case?

Assumption on my part based on experience with short barrel 7.62x39 'pistols' 8-10" in length.

They are much louder then a 9x19/.45 handgun, but less loud then 5.56 'pistols' of 10-12" length. 

More of a 'Boom' then the harsh 'CRACKBANG' of the short barrel 5.56. 

Not exactly scientific but thats my experience from half a dozen range encounters with them. 

If someone has Quickload, they can measure the 'muzzle exit pressure' for 6.5 vs 5.56 out of different barrel lengths. I suspect it will be a good bit lower for 6.5 of equivalent barrel length. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

26-Nov

gatnerd said:

stancrist said: Color me skeptical.  Is it proven that a 6.5 Grendel SBR does not also have an awful muzzle blast, or are you just assuming that to be the case?

Assumption on my part based on experience with short barrel 7.62x39 'pistols' 8-10" in length. They are much louder then a 9x19/.45 handgun, but less loud then 5.56 'pistols' of 10-12" length.  More of a 'Boom' then the harsh 'CRACKBANG' of the short barrel 5.56.  Not exactly scientific but thats my experience from half a dozen range encounters with them.

Okay.  I'll accept that.

Red7272

From: Red7272

26-Nov

stancrist said:

So, you don't actually know -- or have any test data to prove -- that terminal effects of 6.5 Grendel would be inferior to 5.45x39, you're just assuming it would.

I made no reference to terminal effect, that is your assumption.

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