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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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PDW again   Small Arms <20mm

Started 20-Dec by DavidPawley; 29277 views.
Red7272

From: Red7272

31-Jan

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Besides the M1 carbine , AKS-74U probably came closest to widespread adoption, but it now seems it was more or less withdrawn from front line service, With folding stock many SBR are compact enough and red dots make things easier to hit ,even with the standard calibers and velocity losses due to short barrel, the main issue with SBR remains the blast and noise that is of considerable discomfort. Larger bore calibers like 7.62x39 and ,300 BLK are less handicaped by the short barrel.

Well that's pretty much what I said a couple pages ago so I think we can just say we agree at this point. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

31-Jan

Red7272 said:

Mr. T (MrT4) said: Yes you are looking at two types, a pistol round type PDW  with grip magazine or a SBR type either in standard calibers like 5.56 which loses a lot out of the short barrel and.300BLK seems closest to being accepted by the military.

The first one has never worked in service.

PM63.  Issued to Polish tank crewmen.

MP9.  Issued to Dutch F16 pilots.

Red7272 said:

Realistically a service rifle will work for most branches...

Concur.

Red7272 said:

Only vehicle/aircraft crews have the limit on space that may require a special IW, in which case a slow fat round might be a better option than 5.56 given the very short barrels.

Realistically, the 9x39 Russian does not have a snowball's chance in Hell o being adopted by Western armies, and the chances of .300 BLK being adopted as a PDW round are not much better.

The only SBR used by a Western military in the PDW role that I know of is the US Air Force GAU-5A, and it fires 5.56 NATO, not .300 BLK.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

31-Jan

These days it seems new calibers have more than a remote chance, you can see 6.5Creedmoor, 300Norma Mag, and 300BLK already getting limited use , 6.5 creedmoor looks like it might just get enough traction for DMR  similarly 300Norma Mag is looking to become a new standard for Sniper rifles  .

SOCOM Low Visibility Assault Weapon in 300BLK ,SIG MCX Rattler in particular as it has folding stock Can be packed smaller than that GAU-5A and is already in service with bunch of SF and LE units.

Red7272

From: Red7272

31-Jan

stancrist said:

MP9.  Issued to Dutch F16 pilots.

You forgot that one battalion of Portuguese special forces.

Plus the guy on the right in that picture with 4 hands is freaky.

stancrist said:

PM63.  Issued to Polish tank crewmen.

Yup, as I mentioned above along with the Skorpion and Stechkin.

In reply toRe: msg 133
graylion

From: graylion

31-Jan

My premise is a carbine cartridge that fits into a P90 style mag on a seriously big frame gun that is somewhat similar to the P50. It has an integrated sound moderator that also helps to reduce the jet effect recoil. 
It can be fired like a handgun, or like a carbine with a folding or detachable stock.

Cartridge:

Bullet:

6.5x22 @ 500 MPa, polymer case.

stancrist

From: stancrist

31-Jan

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

These days it seems new calibers have more than a remote chance, you can see 6.5Creedmoor, 300Norma Mag, and 300BLK already getting limited use ,

With special forces, sure.  But, are there any armies that have adopted'acquired those calibers for use by non-SF personnel?  

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

SOCOM Low Visibility Assault Weapon in 300BLK ,SIG MCX Rattler in particular as it has folding stock Can be packed smaller than that GAU-5A and is already in service with bunch of SF and LE units.

Right.  And yet, when the US Air Force decided to field a PDW for aircrews, they opted to stick with 5.56mm NATO, not .300 BLK. 

And when the US Army decided to develop a "low visibility" individual weapon, they elected to go with 9mm NATO, not .300 BLK.

graylion

From: graylion

31-Jan

stancrist said:

Right.  And yet, when the US Air Force decided to field a PDW for aircrews, they opted to stick with 5.56mm NATO, not .300 BLK.  And when the US Army decided to develop a "low visibility" individual weapon, they elected to go with 9mm NATO, not .300 BLK.

Didn't somebody post that .300 BLK's precision blows rather badly?

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

31-Jan

300BLK is an absolute nightmare to make shoot realy accurately, But you can always make a sub 3moa gun so no problem for PDW especialy at 50-150m ranges 

smg762

From: smg762

31-Jan

with something like 6.5CBJ, would they be water resistant? or resistant to rough handling........the ammo i mean

Red7272

From: Red7272

31-Jan

smg762 said:

with something like 6.5CBJ, would they be water resistant? or resistant to rough handling........the ammo i mean

Really? You can't google something that basic?

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