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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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LSAT and 'weapon powered' clips   General Military Discussion

Started 26-Dec by smg762; 592 views.
smg762

From: smg762

26-Dec

I read that one LSAT submission,  possibly by textron,  was to have clips which are basically spring less,  i.e..  their somehow powered by the weapon.  It sounds weight efficient but is it practical....?

M16 clips are 110gram... perhaps this could allow a 50gram clip... saving about 350grams in total weight

Also the HK36 from the 1960s used this method,  with throw-away plastic clips. 

Looking at the Google pictures,  I could never work out how they actually pushed the rounds upwards,  into the gun. 

  • Edited 26 December 2020 0:51  by  smg762
In reply toRe: msg 1
taschoene

From: taschoene

26-Dec

https://www.billstclair.com/weaponsman.com/index.html%3Fp=21943

The magazine in the late prototypes is basically a fixed box magazine loaded using an en block clip.  The magazine spring and follower are fixed to the gun.  The loading process is involved; there is a lever with a handle under the magazine box, connected to the follower by a chain.  Pulling back on the lever tensions the chain, which pulls the follower down and compresses the spring.  At this point, the side door is opened and an en block clip is inserted.  After the door is closed, the lever goes forward and the chain tension is released, allowing the spring to expand and push the follower up into the en block clip through a protective tape seal.  At this point, it works like any other box mag, with spring pressure pushing the follower up and the follower pushing the rounds up into the receiver feedway.  It's not a mechanism conducive to rapid reloads but it might save a bit of weight and cost by not having a spring in every clip.  

smg762

From: smg762

26-Dec

I can see a problem..  The mag spring is in the gun.  If it's defective - or becomes defective,  The gun becomes useless. 

I can't find any info on how the. LSATgun supposedly had weapon powered clips.  Only wiki briefly mentions it. 

In reply toRe: msg 1
RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

26-Dec

At the risk of being flippant, that sounds like what a belt feed is.

renatohm

From: renatohm

26-Dec

And machine gun stoppages aren't exactly easily dealt with.

RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

26-Dec

Would depend on the gun, I would think. Given that the basic load for a machine gun is over twice that for a rifle, it can’t be that much of a risk in the first place or unmanageable should it occur.

 

In reply toRe: msg 3
DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

28-Dec

The LSAT linkless feed magazine had a feed sprocket which was driven by the operating rod / bolt reciprocation and rotated to move rounds through the feed path. It’s shown in the Textron patents for the carbine as the LMG was always to use the polymer loop belt.

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