autogun

Military Guns and Ammunition

Hosted by autogun

This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

  • 3210
    MEMBERS
  • 182322
    MESSAGES
  • 1
    POSTS TODAY

Discussions

5.7x28 NATO standardized    Ammunition <20mm

Started 6-Mar by gatnerd; 690 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

6-Mar

Kind of surprising news: 5.7x28 has become an official NATO caliber.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/fn-herstal-5-7x28mm-the-new-nato-caliber-for-pistols-and-submachine-guns

February 25, 2021. Belgium-based FN Herstal, one of the world’s leading designers and manufacturers of small caliber weapons and ammunition, and integrated weapon systems, is proud to announce that the FN®-designed 5.7x28mm caliber was recently recognized as a NATO caliber with the NATO STANAG 4509 (standardization agreement).

In a continuous effort to promote interchangeability of all small caliber ammunition used by allied armed forces, NATO has recently finalized the standardization process of the FN®-designed 5.7x28mm caliber by promulgating the standardization agreement (STANAG) 4509.

The 5.7x28mm caliber is now integrated into the Multi-Caliber Manual Of Proof and Inspection (AEP-97) and joins the standardized NATO small caliber ammunition portfolio, along with the 9x19mm NATO, the 5.56x45mm NATO, the 7.62x51mm NATO and the 12.7x99mm NATO (also widely known as the .50 caliber). As a NATO standardized caliber, the 5.7x28mm caliber provides armies with the guarantee of interchangeability between ammunition from different manufacturers and operational efficiency in weapons of this caliber.

Another source:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2021/3/4/nato-standardizes-fn-s-57x28-mm-cartridge

FN is also now referring to it as 5.7x28 NATO:

https://www.fnherstal.com/en/product/57x28mm

It will be interesting whether we see more countries adopt 5.7 now that its '5.7 NATO,' as well as if we will see more 5.7 weapons, such as my oft hoped for 5.7 B&T MP9. 

EmericD

From: EmericD

6-Mar

Just wait for the next 4.6 x 30 mm NATO, 7.62 x 35 mm NATO and 8.6 x 63 mm NATO...

JPeelen

From: JPeelen

6-Mar

Emeric,

the 4.6 mm x 30 indeed is already a NATO cartridge: see STANAG 4820 of 04 December 2020 (same Date as 5.7 mm STANAG 4509).

To my surprise, the small arms ammunition STANAGs as well as the Manual of Proof and Inspection (MOPI) have been made available to the public on the NATO homepage nato.int under the menu item STANAGs.

New is the document structure. The STANAG is now only a cover letter, while the technical specifications were moved to a separate AOP document with the same number (AOP-4820 etc.)     

stancrist

From: stancrist

6-Mar

gatnerd said:

It will be interesting whether we see more countries adopt 5.7 now that its '5.7 NATO,' as well as if we will see more 5.7 weapons, such as my oft hoped for 5.7 B&T MP9.

Is that even possible?  Considering the substantial difference in cartridge OAL, a 5.7mm MP9 does not look feasible to me.

EmericD

From: EmericD

6-Mar

JPeelen said:

New is the document structure. The STANAG is now only a cover letter, while the technical specifications were moved to a separate AOP document with the same number (AOP-4820 etc.)   

Yes, the ratification process of a STANAG is so slow, people changed the document structure so the team of expert could now change the AOP without having to re-issue the STANAG for ratification.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

6-Mar

Well, if MPA can make a 5.7 MAC clone, I'm sure B&T could make a MP5.7.

stancrist

From: stancrist

6-Mar

The MPA receiver apparently allows the bolt to have sufficient overtravel to the rear, to enable use of the longer 5.7mm cartridge.

If you look at the MP9 sectional view above, it clearly does not have enough space behind the bolt to operate with a longer round.

It seems to me that a simple caliber conversion cannot be done, and a virtually complete redesign of the MP9 would be necessary.

smg762

From: smg762

7-Mar

youd be better off trying to make the MP7 more compact. shorten the rear reciever, lose the flash hider, lose the millions of rails, shave some height off the top. 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

7-Mar

stancrist said:

The MPA receiver apparently allows the bolt to have sufficient overtravel to the rear, to enable use of the longer 5.7mm cartridge. If you look at the MP9 sectional view above, it clearly does not have enough space behind the bolt to operate with a longer round. It seems to me that a simple caliber conversion cannot be done, and a virtually complete redesign of the MP9 would be necessary

Yes, it would require a new built MP9. 

While that would be more work then a simple barrel swap, B&T has already shown themselves capable of re-designs in the platform.

The TP380, for example, is a similar design ergonomically to the MP9, but its completely different in both size and operating principle (I believe direct blowback as opposed to rotating barrel like the 9mm version.)

The TP380 was made strictly for the South American civilian market; pretty limited sales demographic. Yet B&T made it. 

So I don't think its unreasonable to expect B&T to purse a 5.7 MP9 if there was sufficient military interest in the caliber again (and I think it would likely be a big seller in the US civilian market if the huge surge in sales of the Ruger 5.7 is any indication, as well as the hunger for a MP7 type PDW on the civilian market.) 

tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

8-Mar

This can only mean that moar 5.7 guns will be coming to the market right?

TOP