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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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it's ogre   Small Arms <20mm

Started 20-Aug by QuintusO; 1578 views.
QuintusO

From: QuintusO

20-Aug

I guess it's back to SCHV, eh, boys?


US Army procurement is so inefficient and slow that the requirement disappeared before the weapons could be replaced lmao

smg762

From: smg762

21-Aug

Wjat happened to those aeroshell rounds for socom

nincomp

From: nincomp

21-Aug

QuintusO said...

I guess it's back to SCHV, eh, boys?


US Army procurement is so inefficient and slow that the requirement disappeared before the weapons could be replaced lmao

Please provide a link to let the rest of us know to what you are referring.  Honestly, you did a wonderful job of explaining even technical issues when you wrote for TFB.  Lately, when I see your comments, I feel like I am trying to decode a message from a comic-book supervillain.   Well, except you have not yet ended a message with an evil laugh "MUHAHAHA!"     

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

22-Aug

nincomp said:

Please provide a link to let the rest of us know to what you are referring.

The whole justification for the GPC is gone, sad!

nincomp said:

Honestly, you did a wonderful job of explaining even technical issues when you wrote for TFB.

I'm flattered. You wouldn't believe what they paid me!

nincomp said:

Lately, when I see your comments, I feel like I am trying to decode a message from a comic-book supervillain.

When you've been having the same conversations for a decade going round and round in circles, it makes you go a bit mad, I guess.

nincomp said:

Well, except you have not yet ended a message with an evil laugh "MUHAHAHA!"

Sten556

From: Sten556

22-Aug

There will always be a new conflict around, if anything Afghanistan proved the ineffectiveness of 5.56 and other pea shooters. But then lets blame the round that wasn't tried before!

nincomp

From: nincomp

22-Aug

Sten556 said...

if anything Afghanistan proved the ineffectiveness of 5.56 and other pea shooters.

I think that most here would disagree with that statement.  It mainly showed that M855 was not an optimal round for short-barreled weapons.  It had inconsistent terminal effects and was not so great at shooting through the windshields of approaching vehicular bombers.  Both the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel emerged in the early 2000's as responses.   Over fifteen years ago, when I first joined this forum, the General Purpose Cartridge was a major topic on this forum.  Recently, not so much.

From my understanding, the improved performance of MK262, M855A1, and Mk318 reduced the perceived need for a GPC.   Current loadings of 5.56 are certainly not considered "ineffective", although many here would prefer something with a greater effective range.   Another important change from the early 2000's was the increased use of designated marksmen to provide effective fire at greater distances. 

NGSW is mainly designed to deal with future enemies who will wear body armor.  There is also some hope that more effective optics will offset the lower combat ammo load by increasing the percentage of hits.  This is yet to be demonstrated, though.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

22-Aug

Jokes aside, NGSW requisites were not so influenced by Afghan campaign. ISAF ended in 2014.

I'm more and more tempted to think that M1186 metrics were defined as a future-proof cartridge in terms of FCS capabilities growth. Possibly the insistence in personal armor defeat blurred the initial concepts, but growing the effective range was and is paramount in order to achieve overmatch

Besides, if a requisite set as hard as this one is achieved reliably by textron's CT, it could be refined just before its adoption. For instance, making mV grow at the expense of bullet mass

Anyways, remembering your set of interviews and some of the previous open sourced info about this continuous chain of programs (LSAT/NGAD/NGSW) it looks to me clearer and clearer than a good part of the last program was the definitive test for CT, using the two other bids as backups. From the very beginning, this was not going to be a repetition of the program without actual alternatives and backups called SPIW

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

22-Aug

poliorcetes said:

Jokes aside, NGSW requisites were not so influenced by Afghan campaign. ISAF ended in 2014. I'm more and more tempted to think that M1186 metrics were defined as a future-proof cartridge in terms of FCS capabilities growth. Possibly the insistence in personal armor defeat blurred the initial concepts, but growing the effective range was and is paramount in order to achieve overmatch Besides, if a requisite set as hard as this one is achieved reliably by textron's CT, it could be refined just before its adoption. For instance, making mV grow at the expense of bullet mass Anyways, remembering your set of interviews and some of the previous open sourced info about this continuous chain of programs (LSAT/NGAD/NGSW) it looks to me clearer and clearer than a good part of the last program was the definitive test for CT, using the two other bids as backups. From the very beginning, this was not going to be a repetition of the program without actual alternatives and backups called SPIW

Uh, I was there homie, yes it was. Why do you think Picatinny was advertising a 1,200 meter effective range from their 6.5mm CT Carbine in 2017? Oh, what's that? It might have have something to do with some central asian country that we'd been at war with for over 15 years at that point? Weird.

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

22-Aug

poliorcetes said:

Anyways, remembering your set of interviews and some of the previous open sourced info about this continuous chain of programs (LSAT/NGAD/NGSW) it looks to me clearer and clearer than a good part of the last program was the definitive test for CT, using the two other bids as backups. From the very beginning, this was not going to be a repetition of the program without actual alternatives and backups called SPIW

What are you talking about? SPIW had three contractors and a government candidate.

QuintusO

From: QuintusO

22-Aug

poliorcetes said:

I'm more and more tempted to think that M1186 metrics were defined as a future-proof cartridge in terms of FCS capabilities growth. Possibly the insistence in personal armor defeat blurred the initial concepts, but growing the effective range was and is paramount in order to achieve overmatch

Body armor became the meme of the day with ICSR. It was the industry's way to hop onto that gravy train. Picatinny and ARL played 5D extradimensional chess and made sure the brass (and specifically Milley) knew that the CT Carbine and the Picatinny FCS would have even better performance in that respect. Then Kori got the project taken away from her. That's how it went down.

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