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Relevance of AA guns   General Military Discussion

Started 5-Sep by smg762; 961 views.
smg762

From: smg762

5-Sep

I was readig about the old ZSU AA vehicles and how they were effective, at least up untill the 80s or so.  The consensus was that this type of system is now redundant thanks to the speed of new planes.  of course the drawback with current G2A missiles is the cost.

With.modern guns capable of both airburst, and also hypervelocities (5000+), could a new AA vehicle have a possible afvantage over missiles?

Looking at the most extreme example, could a modern 'ZSU' equivalent have a better chance against an F35, given that most of its defences are oriented towards missles? Again im thinking in terms of a 6000fps round, perhaps in a 40mm dual cannon.  

Or would the AA vehicle be hopelessly vulnerable to the F35, even before it can get a shot in?

In reply toRe: msg 1
Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

5-Sep

The problem for AA guns is 1. most planes will stay above their effective altitude; and 2. the ones that are within range have friends with anti-radiation missiles to take them out.

In reply toRe: msg 1
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

5-Sep

With the ever-expanding use of drones AAA again has a role, but generally i think they will be moving towards larger calibers with more range and programable or even guided ammo . When you are at 40mm or 57mm you are not far of MANPAD range

Also note that many extended range munitions for stand off attacks are slow as they trade in speed and altitude for glide angles wings enable. Again something that AAA could possibly engage ,

In reply toRe: msg 1
mpopenker

From: mpopenker

6-Sep

IMHO, small and medium caliber (20-57mm) AA guns with modern aiming systems are still relevant against helicopters and UAV. Especially if paired with SAM, such as Russian Pantsyr or Tunguska systems.

they also make a fomidable ground support addition for low-level assymmetrical warfare conflicts

smg762

From: smg762

6-Sep

Yes i should have clarified i meant a.SPAAG like the old ZSU. 

In reply toRe: msg 5
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

6-Sep

If spaag can be as protected as IFV and not to different to IFV  like Derivatsia or CV90 TriAD, at one point i could imagine IFVs networking and a single SPAAG with its radar being able to provide targeting data for others greatly enhancing effectiveness.

They can be very organic to the other Armor . Old ZSU are very thin skined but have proven themselves against ground targets again and again so i imagine new  SPAAG coudl as well. Larger calibers needed to deal with ever increasing ATGM range , for past 30+ years AT choppers could fire outside 20-23mm cannon range , but with 40-57mm cannons its again becoming much more dangerous.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

6-Sep

IIRC, part of the reason for canceling the DIVAD (Sgt. York) program back in the 80s was helicopter-launched ATGMs had more range than 40mm AA guns.

smg762

From: smg762

6-Sep

To me it seems a spaag would have he advantage because it can shoot down any missile attack from the jet. And the spaag has an easier job of 'concentrating' because its not flying at mach 2.

In reply toRe: msg 1
17thfabn

From: 17thfabn

6-Sep

smg762 said:

With.modern guns capable of both airburst, and also hypervelocities (5000+), could a new AA vehicle have a possible afvantage over missiles?

Is it realistic to have AA guns that can fire at that high a velocity and still have a high rate of fire?

17thfabn

From: 17thfabn

6-Sep

smg762 said:

To me it seems a spaag would have he advantage because it can shoot down any missile attack from the jet.

What is the speed of most air launched anti-tank missiles?

A quick look the US Hell fire looks to be one of the faster ones at a little under 1,000 mph. I don't know if that is launch speed or it maintains that  speed .

The hardest part would be detecting a missile was launched  and reacting in time.

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