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Hk prototype sniper   General Military Discussion

Started 9-Sep by smg762; 1195 views.
smg762

From: smg762

9-Sep

Recently i was on a HK site, possibly HKpro.com, and they had a little section devoted to rare HK guns. One was a prototype sniper rifle with proprietary caliber....close to 338 if i recall. Date was early 90s or so

I cant seem to find the page anymore...anyone know about this? 

Edit....

Heres the link 

https://www.hkpro.com/threads/wsg2000.527817/

Its a 9mm bullet with 350grains. Rifle had a buffer system like the IWS2000

  • Edited 09 September 2021 15:01  by  smg762
In reply toRe: msg 1
EmericD

From: EmericD

10-Sep

smg762 said:

Its a 9mm bullet with 350grains. Rifle had a buffer system like the IWS2000

Several cartridges were tested, based on the 12.7x99 case and finally the 9x85 mm MEN. This cartridge was very similar to the "ideal" long range sniper cartridge studied in the US during the 90s, launching a 350 gr / .358" bullet at 1000 m/s.

At least one guy in the US is using a very similar wildcat based on the 12.7x99 mm (or the .416 Barrett), because Cutting Edge is proposing a 340 gr / .358" MTH bullet.

Necking down the .375 Chey-Tac to .358" would also give good results, with a MV around 1000 m/s.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

10-Sep

In the world of ELR , Cheytac based cartridges are going somewhat out of fashion not because that lack the velocity but because its  CT cartridge is pain in the ass to load with low ES/SD numbers ,

While CheyTac was definetly the trailblazer in some ways as an extended range anti-personnel round. with actions sized for it so got to see some limited military use.

These days its interesting to see Tubb X  33,37 and 41 taking most of the KOM records. While the .416Barrett that seems like obvious powerhouse is not quite making it. 

XC33 , XC37 ,XC41 seem as under powered but are catching on in the ELR scene. https://www.rifletalks.com/ballistics-by-rifletalks/david-tubb-37xc-cartridge/

smg762

From: smg762

10-Sep

I like the idea of an anti material rifle like this or he IWS2000.

I think the best approach is a weapon which can also do full auto. Imagine a LWMMG with the IWS2000 ammo

Oh...the 37xc bullet in that pic looks incredibly long...what would be the equivalent length in 556.....38mm?

How many 'calibers in length do you think it is

  • Edited 10 September 2021 17:02  by  smg762
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

10-Sep

EmericD said:

Several cartridges were tested, based on the 12.7x99 case and finally the 9x85 mm MEN

The .375 Warner is a cool one as well, also using the .50/ x99 as the parent case: 

Designed to launch the 361gr Flatline (G7 .480) @ 3500fps. Ballistics would be pretty wild:

The issue for all of these as Anti Material rifles is the ability to create AP and especially API projectiles with a VLD shape. 

EwingGreg

From: EwingGreg

12-Sep

round shoulder of case?             Everything my gunsmith dad ever told me says that is somewhat questionable. 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

12-Sep

Reportedly the domed shoulder is to help squeak in a bit more powder capacity, and potentially allow a better flow of gas:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/7902/1

No idea the merits of this, but the guys at Warner do seem to be very capable engineers and ballistic nerds, so I'm inclined to give them the befit of the doubt.

EmericD

From: EmericD

12-Sep

gatnerd said:

The .375 Warner is a cool one as well, also using the .50/ x99 as the parent case: 

I din't see a lot of .375 Warner this side of the Atlantic, but it could be an interesting (and really overbore) round.

The 10x100 BWA is also based on the x99 mm case, and we made some 500+ gr / .408" for it (G7 above 0.6), but up to now the results were not satisfactory.

I'm not sure the x99 mm case is such a good idea to "wildcat", the M33 loading is operating at 280-290 MPa and when you try to "hot rod" the case and increase the pressure to 350-380 MPa, losing the primer is commonplace. Starting with the .416 Barrett case gives generally better results, but sometimes case life is still very short.

smg762

From: smg762

12-Sep

Wiki says that both the WSG200 and steyrs IWS used a majorly recoiling barrel.  With both being intended for 1 or 2 miles, how did they hope to get accuracy....surely it would lose zero

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

12-Sep

EmericD said:

I din't see a lot of .375 Warner this side of the Atlantic, but it could be an interesting (and really overbore) round. The 10x100 BWA is also based on the x99 mm case, and we made some 500+ gr / .408" for it (G7 above 0.6), but up to now the results were not satisfactory.

I don't think theres much .375 Warner this side of the Atlantic either - as far as I can tell that is the only picture of the cartridge posted to the web. The whole crop of 'king of 2 mile' seems very fluid, with an endless procession of wildcats and refinements.

Beyond their FB post that I stumbled across, theres just bits of info on ELR threads:

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/lets-talk-about-2-mile-cartridges.174178/page-25#post-1329086

In terms of .50 BMG parent case, theres also the .460 Steyr, which I guess also went nowhere:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.460_Steyr

Do you think there is a military application for any of these 'ELR' cartridges? IE beyond .338 but not .50 BMG. Or are they just cool ballistic projects?

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