gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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anti material rifle not dead   General Military Discussion

Started 29/9/21 by Mr. T (MrT4); 11311 views.
Red7272

From: Red7272

29/9/21

gatnerd said:

I could also see the appeal for having one of these on remote firebases in the desert, for zapping anyone approaching.

Stick an RWS on a platform and use that instead. much more practical and does not require a selection criteria for people willing to use the Serbian contraption. 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

29/9/21

Red7272 said:

Stick an RWS on a platform and use that instead. much more practical and does not require a selection criteria for people willing to use the Serbian contraption. 

I was thinking more the 'ballin on a budget' militaries like Serbia, Ukraine, Mideast and Africa who likely could not afford a proper RWS.

I don't see any real application for these sort of Metro cannons in a fully funded and equipped military.

stancrist

From: stancrist

29/9/21

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

WTF was the thinking behind this monstrosity

For one, they were thinking it would be good for the shooter to not have the scope rigidly attached to the gun, thereby avoiding concussions and facial injuries

The spring returns the optic to the proper shooting position after recoil.  A clever way to deal with the considerable rearward movement of the gun upon firing.

But, I imagine what you actually meant is what rationale prompted the design and development?

I suggest looking at Serbian combat experience for possible reasons.

Perhaps there have been lots of materiel targets in recent Serb wars?

Or maybe it's for counter-sniper use in urban battles, similar to the use of vehicle-mounted autocannon in this video:  https://youtu.be/1qGKTRlSuvY?t=1

  • Edited 29 September 2021 22:50  by  stancrist
Red7272

From: Red7272

29/9/21

I think there are more practical alternatives. M30 firing cannister also works.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

29/9/21

Red7272 said:

M30 firing cannister also works.

Wow, is there a canister load? Do you have the specs? I always wondered how a .50 BMG canister load would have performed. 

Obviously a proper vehicle mounted Autocannon is far superior.

The advantage of these single shot guns is they are much more mobile and easier to hide from air attack and surveillance. 

Essentially they share a similar basis to MANPADS - undeniably a proper missile defense AA platform is wayyyy better then a few guys with Stingers. But a few guys with Stingers can pop up pretty much anywhere, and are extremely difficult to find and pre-emptively destroy from the air. And the Stingers can be tossed into the back of any truck and kept handy as needed, or deployed to remote areas with ease. 

Same to with these Elephant Guns. They're cheap, easily transportable, can be easily hidden and deployed in urban or remote areas, and allow a pretty high level of  destruction for a man portable system at a fraction of the cost of guided missiles. 

I imagine if the Taliban or Iraqi insurgents had them in quantity, they would have been as serious concern for US forces. Likewise, a number of them showing up in Syria would be a concern to Russian or Turkish forces (depending on which local actor received them.) 

They're not a war winner by any means, but they could be a serious nuisance and psychologically unsettling weapon, thats cheap, durable, and makes use of widely available AA ammunition.  

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

29/9/21

stancrist said:

The spring returns the optic to the proper shooting position after recoil.  A clever way to deal with the considerable rearward movement of the gun upon firing.

I wonder how well such a system could hold zero? 

In reply toRe: msg 11
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

29/9/21

Heres another of the same class, a DIY 23mm made in Ukraine:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/05/29/separatist-anti-material-rifle/

This video (scroll around) shows its capabilities against old armor and more importantly, smashing through brick walls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioungicX41c

stancrist

From: stancrist

30/9/21

gatnerd said:

I wonder how well such a system could hold zero? 

I'm wondering the same thing.  

stancrist

From: stancrist

30/9/21

gatnerd said:

I always wondered how a .50 BMG canister load would have performed.

Rather poorly, I would think. 

After all, we're talking about a maximum pellet size of probably #4 Buck -- possibly #3 Buck, at best -- and only a dozen or so pellets in the load.

The shot load would be comparable to that of a 32-gauge shotgun shell.

The .24-caliber, 20-grain pellets would lose velocity very quickly, severely limiting effective range.  And rifling spin would reduce pattern density.

EmericD

From: EmericD

30/9/21

Interesting muzzle device and gun action!

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