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anti material rifle not dead   General Military Discussion

Started 29-Sep by Mr. T (MrT4); 8080 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

15-Oct

stancrist said:

HE 441D time of flight to 1000 meters = 5.1 seconds

Excellent, thank you. 

So for zapping any type of moving target, unless the target is driving straight toward the CG, that would really be an eternity. So that could be something where an AMR would be better. 

1000m data was not shared, but the earlier slideshow had the 1500m flight time at 3.2 seconds. 

That said, with the upcoming Guided Carl G / Guided AT4, which is designed to be able to fit moving targets via semi active laser guidance... probably easier to just snag those vs setting up a dedicated AMR weapons program (despite how cool a return to AMR's might be.) 

In terms of Tripod for CG, I found this prototype...which as you predicted looks to have abysmal ergonomics. 

For ergonomics there would likely need to be some sort of offset tripod, possibly using something like a Filmaking 'Steadycam' arm attached to the CG, which is supported by the tripod. 

Like a much more robust stable version of this:

Alternatively, a tripod that clamps to the very muzzle end of the CG, allowing the gunner to stand/crouch behind the tripod to fire. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

15-Oct

gatnerd said:

So for zapping any type of moving target, unless the target is driving straight toward the CG, that would really be an eternity. So that could be something where an AMR would be better.

The shorter ToF would certainly be better for engaging moving targets.  The question is, how much better would a 20mm AMR be?

As best I can tell from a brief search, currently available AMRs in 20x110 and 20x102 are either single-shot or bolt-action repeaters.

I wonder just how effective a bolt-action 20mm AMR would be in a scenario like that seen here:  https://youtu.be/S4YRiJM-BLw?t=25

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

15-Oct

That was a great video.

Against that type of moving target it would have to be one hell of a crack AMR man. 

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

17-Oct

I'd rather have an M2 or equivalent too but in situations where you can't have that for some reason this is a close second

stancrist

From: stancrist

18-Oct

roguetechie said:

I'd rather have an M2 or equivalent too but in situations where you can't have that for some reason this is a close second

Nah.  Maybe a distant third.  First, the GM6 magazine holds only 5 shots.  GM6 Lynx Semi Auto 50 BMG Bullpup - YouTube

Second, the GM6 magazine design is not conducive to rapid reloads under stress.  https://youtu.be/6_sdpMHMFZs?t=165

Compare to the M82, which has twice the ammo capacity, and easier/faster reloading.  https://youtu.be/UFB7-bvVKs8?t=5

But, whether the AMR is a GM6 or M82, I have to wonder how useful it would really be.

In many VBIED attacks there is no warning, and weapon types will make no difference. 

Examples:

     https://youtu.be/iJkutgFj_Vc?t=15

     https://youtu.be/ZD_MQFius3A?t=15

Even in the one case I found like your postulated scenario, it's questionable if the outcome would have been any different with a .50 AMR.

     https://youtu.be/pfT-EgCF-Tc?t=45

  • Edited 18 October 2021 5:37  by  stancrist
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

18-Oct

Iraq and Syria seen bunch of these VBIEDs where the vehicle is seen well in advance and as they started using ever more armored vehicels up to an T55 hull without a turret you end up with need for a guided missile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osblKE7TChE

But end of the day preparing for 3rd world insurgency and occupation of a country is not the same as preparing for peer warfare. 

This seems to fit the bill antimeterial missile with 2km range.Lock on before launch fire and forget, Cant find the pict right now but i think chinese also presented one for use with RPG7

stancrist

From: stancrist

18-Oct

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Iraq and Syria seen bunch of these VBIEDs where the vehicle is seen well in advance and as they started using ever more armored vehicels up to an T55 hull without a turret you end up with need for a guided missile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osblKE7TChE

Very true.  However, now you're talking about a situation wherein the VBIED is being used to attack an enemy's frontline troops in a more or less conventional infantry battle in open terrain.  When you can see and identify the threat at a distance of 1700 meters, a guided missile is the best tool for the job.

However, because of the extremely short distance to the target, a guided missile would be quite useless in the "checkpoint" scenario.  

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

But end of the day preparing for 3rd world insurgency and occupation of a country is not the same as preparing for peer warfare.

Actually, most equipment is the same.  MRAPs may be substituted for IFVs, and some other adjustments made, but the same rifles, machine guns, mortars, artillery, helicopters, etc, will be used, whether counterinsurgency operations or conventional war.

  • Edited 18 October 2021 14:19  by  stancrist
smg762

From: smg762

22-Oct

Could 30mm GAU (A-10) work in an AMR or is it too much... whats the upper limit..25mm?

EmericD

From: EmericD

23-Oct

smg762 said:

Could 30mm GAU (A-10) work in an AMR or is it too much... whats the upper limit..25mm?

Hum... forget about the 25x137 mm which is using between 90 g (full bore) and 100 g (APDS) of propellant, or nearly twice as much as the 20x139 mm (~55 g) which is already probably outside the realm of a practical AMR.

The 14.5x114 mm (~30 g of powder), 20x102 mm (~36 g) and 30x113 (~50 g) are probably delivering as much blast & energy as you can handle in a (not so) portable weapon.

  • Edited 23 October 2021 3:54  by  EmericD
In reply toRe: msg 80
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

11-Nov

This popped up on reddit today, pretty nice looking AMR. No word yet on caliber.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/qrmieg/scratchbuilt_antimateriel_rifle_used_by_antijunta/

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