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anti material rifle not dead   General Military Discussion

Started 29/9/21 by Mr. T (MrT4); 14695 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

18/10/21

roguetechie said:

I'd rather have an M2 or equivalent too but in situations where you can't have that for some reason this is a close second

Nah.  Maybe a distant third.  First, the GM6 magazine holds only 5 shots.  GM6 Lynx Semi Auto 50 BMG Bullpup - YouTube

Second, the GM6 magazine design is not conducive to rapid reloads under stress.  https://youtu.be/6_sdpMHMFZs?t=165

Compare to the M82, which has twice the ammo capacity, and easier/faster reloading.  https://youtu.be/UFB7-bvVKs8?t=5

But, whether the AMR is a GM6 or M82, I have to wonder how useful it would really be.

In many VBIED attacks there is no warning, and weapon types will make no difference. 

Examples:

     https://youtu.be/iJkutgFj_Vc?t=15

     https://youtu.be/ZD_MQFius3A?t=15

Even in the one case I found like your postulated scenario, it's questionable if the outcome would have been any different with a .50 AMR.

     https://youtu.be/pfT-EgCF-Tc?t=45

  • Edited 18 October 2021 5:37  by  stancrist
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

18/10/21

Iraq and Syria seen bunch of these VBIEDs where the vehicle is seen well in advance and as they started using ever more armored vehicels up to an T55 hull without a turret you end up with need for a guided missile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osblKE7TChE

But end of the day preparing for 3rd world insurgency and occupation of a country is not the same as preparing for peer warfare. 

This seems to fit the bill antimeterial missile with 2km range.Lock on before launch fire and forget, Cant find the pict right now but i think chinese also presented one for use with RPG7

stancrist

From: stancrist

18/10/21

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Iraq and Syria seen bunch of these VBIEDs where the vehicle is seen well in advance and as they started using ever more armored vehicels up to an T55 hull without a turret you end up with need for a guided missile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osblKE7TChE

Very true.  However, now you're talking about a situation wherein the VBIED is being used to attack an enemy's frontline troops in a more or less conventional infantry battle in open terrain.  When you can see and identify the threat at a distance of 1700 meters, a guided missile is the best tool for the job.

However, because of the extremely short distance to the target, a guided missile would be quite useless in the "checkpoint" scenario.  

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

But end of the day preparing for 3rd world insurgency and occupation of a country is not the same as preparing for peer warfare.

Actually, most equipment is the same.  MRAPs may be substituted for IFVs, and some other adjustments made, but the same rifles, machine guns, mortars, artillery, helicopters, etc, will be used, whether counterinsurgency operations or conventional war.

  • Edited 18 October 2021 14:19  by  stancrist
smg762

From: smg762

22/10/21

Could 30mm GAU (A-10) work in an AMR or is it too much... whats the upper limit..25mm?

EmericD

From: EmericD

23/10/21

smg762 said:

Could 30mm GAU (A-10) work in an AMR or is it too much... whats the upper limit..25mm?

Hum... forget about the 25x137 mm which is using between 90 g (full bore) and 100 g (APDS) of propellant, or nearly twice as much as the 20x139 mm (~55 g) which is already probably outside the realm of a practical AMR.

The 14.5x114 mm (~30 g of powder), 20x102 mm (~36 g) and 30x113 (~50 g) are probably delivering as much blast & energy as you can handle in a (not so) portable weapon.

  • Edited 23 October 2021 3:54  by  EmericD
In reply toRe: msg 80
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

11/11/21

This popped up on reddit today, pretty nice looking AMR. No word yet on caliber.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/qrmieg/scratchbuilt_antimateriel_rifle_used_by_antijunta/

In reply toRe: msg 81
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

24-Jan

Anti Material rifle not dead yet. I suspect we may see these in Ukraine; I wonder if they are being made just as a product to sell, or whether as a result of actual 14.5 AMR performance in Ukraine. 

Cadex 14.5mm; 45lbs

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2024/01/24/shot-2024-cadex-defence-introduces-cdx-x145-sniper-rifle/

Intriguingly, the poster behind him shows a 14.5mm Match AP cartridge using a 2 Piece machined case. 

1100gr @ 1000m/s, tungsten core with polymer tip. This exceeds the already wild ballistics of military 14.5.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

25-Jan

It likely has a bunch to do with western barrel makers now offering 14.5mm blanks thanks to ELR game , and potentialy large 3rd world market for 14.5mm its not like anyone aside from former Warsaw pact now nato mamber states would be buyin it.

In any respect 14.5 is really only true anti-armor cartridge out there .

Its is also quite possible that Ukraine wanted CADEX in 14.5mm and for 2 years money was no object enough to get them built.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25-Jan

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

In any respect 14.5 is really only true anti-armor cartridge out there .

One of the originals and still the best. These 14.5 rifles are as close as we're likely to ever see to a modern AMR, as I doubt something like the IWS-2000 will be revived.  

I could see the market being mostly 3rd world or former Warsaw pact if they still have stocks of 14.5, but it could also be a useful gun for US/West arming proxy forces (say the Kurds, who have used 12.7 and 14.5 AMR against ISIS VBIEDs and fortifications)

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

25-Jan

Cadex is on a high end in terms of price not most common tool for ME proxies not to mention its Candian , a full package is likely well north of 20k $ , 35k$ wouldn't be outside the realm with full optics package , Saudis were by leaps and bounds the largest buyer for use in Yemen 

But given that Canada has bought millions worth of 50Cal  Cadex for Ukraine, it is indeed most likely 14.5mm was developed for Ukraine.

Huthi with battlefield pickup Cadex 50BMG

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