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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Sweden & Finland look to 7.62x51 as primary infantry rifle    Small Arms <20mm

Started 10-Nov by gatnerd; 998 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

10-Nov

This just popped up on Reddit today:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CredibleDefense/comments/qq6t2e/sweden_plans_on_returning_to_762_nato_as_their/

"Sweden and Finland are deepening their military cooperation by common sniper rifle and designated marksman's rifle procurement from Finnish gun manufacturer SAKO. Swedish military is now planning on replacing AK-5 and AK-4 rifles in service with SAKO AR-10 pattern rifles in 7.62 NATO. Cartridge choice is due to fears of enemies with modern body armor. This is the current plan as stated by Swedish military officers in charge of the procurement, but it might still change in coming years."

https://corporalfrisk.com/2021/11/06/aiming-for-a-joint-target/

Relevant excerpts:

But this is where it gets interesting, as Sweden is looking at the next step in their ten-year plan: the assault rifles.

Let’s give the news up front: at the moment the most likely candidate is a Finnish-built AR-platform in 7.62×51 mm.

Both Frisell and Norberg take care to point out that this is still in the planning stages and no decision has been made on either manufacturer or calibre, but as both the Swedish Armed Forces and FMV have spent considerable time and effort researching the question over the last few years (including no doubt looking into the state of ballistic protection in… certain countries) there are some paths that are looking more probable than others. What tips the scale in the direction of 7.62×51 mm is that the round is seen as having more development potential compared to the lighter 5.56×45 mm. The view is also that most high-quality service-grade AR-pattern rifles are more or less equal once you bring them out in the field, so the need for a big shoot-out is smaller than it used to be when the field of service rifles was more varied (while it wasn’t said explicitly that some designs had been ruled out, the discussion very much centred around the AR).

An obvious question is whether the Swedes have noticed that there is quite some developments taking place in the US with the NGSW-program set to replace the assault rifles and squad automatic weapons with a new family of weapons in a new 6.8 mm calibre? The NGSW and associated developments have indeed been followed closely from Sweden, including being briefed directly by their US counterparts. In the end, the technological risk was judged too great for a small country to seek to join the program at this stage. Norgren also noted that “We don’t quite have that time to wait”, as the majority of the FN FNC (AK 5) and G3 in use are getting worn down.

However, one thing that is being looked into is the possibility of having the new rifle being modular enough to allow for potentially changing calibre later – or even mid-production as the expected production run for any new assault rifle is expected to be measured in years – in case the 6.8 mm turn out to be a game changer.

A mechanism has been created, i.e. the documents have been signed between Finland and Sweden, which enable joint procurements to be made later, but we are still in the planning stage and no decisions on possible procurements have been made” 

stancrist

From: stancrist

10-Nov

gatnerd said:

Swedish military is now planning on replacing AK-5 and AK-4 rifles in service with SAKO AR-10 pattern rifles in 7.62 NATO.

Below:  Gene Stoner in 1956.

In reply toRe: msg 2
nincomp

From: nincomp

10-Nov

How much would the ogive of the 7.62x51 need to be lengthened to have a significant effect on BC and consequently more energy at 600m and beyond? 

I know that it would be unusual for one country to develop their own, slightly different ammo, but that would at least allow them to use standard 7.61x51 ammo when necessary.

Farmplinker

From: Farmplinker

10-Nov

Will the Finnish rifle be a licensed LMT?

EmericD

From: EmericD

11-Nov

Farmplinker said:

Will the Finnish rifle be a licensed LMT?

SAKO is part of the Beretta group.

Beretta was well involved into the NGSW program and is going to unveil a new assault rifle developped for the Italian SF. The SAKO rifle will probably share most of it's DNA with the Italian SF rifle.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

11-Nov

EmericD said:

Beretta was well involved into the NGSW program and is going to unveil a new assault rifle developped for the Italian SF. The SAKO rifle will probably share most of it's DNA with the Italian SF rifle

Very interesting. The article had said that they expected an AR-10 type rifle, is that in line with whats expected for the Italian SF rifle? 

I take it they were not interested in the ARX 200...

EmericD

From: EmericD

11-Nov

gatnerd said:

I take it they were not interested in the ARX 200...

A paper from 2020 on this topic:

https://corporalfrisk.com/2020/05/27/the-return-of-the-sako/

I seems that they are looking for a rifle family, including a DMR, and the ARX-200 is not really suited for that task (it was developped first as a "battle rifle", but it was found that the design was very difficult to be "accurazed" in order to make a proper DMR).

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

11-Nov

EmericD said:

Beretta was well involved into the NGSW program and is going to unveil a new assault rifle developped for the Italian SF

Do you think Beretta, based on their NGSW involvement, may have added some NGSW DNA into the new rifle, to allow it to be more easily converted to 6.8 in the future? 

The original article mentions that Sweden may look to convert their rifles to 6.8 in the future should it become a reality. 

I'm excited to see what SAKO produces. I dont know about how their military rifles perform, but I've shot both SAKO and Tikka (their econo sister company) bolt action hunting rifles. I had no problem putting 3rds into 1" at 100yd, using basic JSP hunting ammo. They were both real shooters right out of the box. 

tidusyuki

From: tidusyuki

11-Nov

LMAO another country embracing the AR supremacy. This means lot of countries are also leaving folding stock. Does it deemed unnecessary nowadays?

  • Edited 12 November 2021 2:17  by  tidusyuki
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

12-Nov

tidusyuki said:

This means lot of countries are also leaving collapsible stock.

Do you mean, abandoning folding stocks in favor of collapsible stocks? As most AR10/15 type rifles these days employ a collapsible stock. 

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