gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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XM915 20mm debuted    Aircraft Guns

Started 21-Nov by gatnerd; 5564 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

25-Nov

“We’re looking for an aircraft that...can engage at greater ranges than current exist..."

Perhaps 20mm provides longer effective range with shorter time of flight than 30mm?

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25-Nov

Thats possible, it would be cool if we had a BC calculator for those.

Offhand though I don’t think it would have much more effective range if any.

30mm has ~2.5x the mass of 20mm, so even with an inferior shape, it probably has a higher BC and velocity retention then 20mm.

Beyond that, 20mm relies on kinetic energy for metal penetration, whereas 30mm uses a shaped charge HEDP, which should function pretty much the same across a wide velocity envelope (guess on my part based on 40x46/53 and various LAW/RPG HEAT/HEDP warheads penetrating steel well at 230-800fps)

Happy Thanksgiving Stan.

stancrist

From: stancrist

25-Nov

And the same to you.  

Bon appétit

  • Edited 25 November 2021 14:39  by  stancrist
EmericD

From: EmericD

25-Nov

gatnerd said:

Thats possible, it would be cool if we had a BC calculator for those.

I should have some radar data for the 20 x 139 mm and 30 x 113 mm somewhere...

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

25-Nov

It shows nothing of the sort.

The AREA attack weapon system, to give the m230 its correct name, is not the kind of weapon referred to by Milley.

JAGM is the kind of weapon referred to by Milley.

The type of gun is irrelevant to the situations described in the article.

P.S. The ammo cap of 300 in Apache is definitely because the extra fuel tank takes up the rest of the ammo bay. The loss of capacity is acceptable because 1200 rounds are heavy and never fired (because of the 200 spm rof), and not because 300 are somehow magically more accurate. 6 minutes firing time is ludicrous and always was. Another 20 min flight time will always be more useful than another 270 seconds of being a target for rpg.

PPS The reason that Apache aren’t the kick in the door force is because they’re shit at it. 

In reply toRe: msg 25
DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

25-Nov

https://www.airforcemag.com/article/1003najaf/
LARA is an armed reconnaissance helo.

Apache is now a “heavy” armed reconnaissance and CAS helo, not a deep strike platform.

If Army really wants to be deep striking, they should bring back Pershing II.

poliorcetes

From: poliorcetes

25-Nov

six words: 30x113 airburst for shoot down sUAS

While 30x113 is going to be used as another Counter-sUAS layer from land platforms, it seems that helos are not going to be protected or used for protecting others like so

Sorry, happy Thanksgiving for all you Americans

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Nov

EmericD said:

I should have some radar data for the 20 x 139 mm and 30 x 113 mm somewhere..

That would be very cool. 

If you happen to know penetration data for either 20x103 or x139 with the HEI/SAPHEI projectile, that would also be very helpful for determining how it stacks up to 30x113's stated 25mm RHA @ 50 degrees 500m listed on the spec sheet. 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Nov

DavidPawley said:

PPS The reason that Apache aren’t the kick in the door force is because they’re shit at it

Could you expand on that?

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

26-Nov

poliorcetes said:

six words: 30x113 airburst for shoot down sUAS While 30x113 is going to be used as another Counter-sUAS layer from land platforms, it seems that helos are not going to be protected or used for protecting others like so Sorry, happy Thanksgiving for all you American

Happy honorary thanksgiving to you Poli. 

Kinda reminds me of when I was living in Europe as an exchange student on Thanksgiving. It proved impossible to track down a turkey or the specialized bread crumbs for making stuffing - so the thanksgiving party I hosted ended up just cooking a big chicken and getting our carbohydrate side dish via beers ;-) Ended up being one of the better Thanksgivings. 

In terms of counter UAS, that would be interesting if helicopters could 'shoot down' incoming drones while providing CAS to infantry. Although a pack of Stingers would likely be more practical and versatile. 

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