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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 218260 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

30-Nov

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Look don't get me wrong i am fully aware Russian invasion of Ukraine is wrong , but it was far from Unprovoked. Red flag was dangled long and frequently enough to get Putin to foolishly step into a trap . At the same time Russians can easily claim the situation its a reverse Kosovo , this time they are the NATO and Ukraine is Serbia persecuting local minority, occupied territories are Kosovo (by the way we still have soldiers in Kosovo )

So rather then being an expansionist war of conquest, you subscribe to the view that this is what - a brutal and incompetent Cosplay of the NATO Kosovo intervention, thats actually a trap set by master strategist Joe Biden?

...

Honestly I'd have a lot more respect for Russias position if instead of these absurd mental gymnastics and whataboutisms, they just came out and said "fuck these hohols, we want their territory." 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

30-Nov

Excellent in depth analysis; I'm still reading through it.

https://static.rusi.org/359-SR-Ukraine-Preliminary-Lessons-Feb-July-2022-web-final.pdf

Article in The Economist summarising some of the papers findings:

https://archive.ph/reVFU

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

1-Dec

Mass murdering was quite mutual, if I remember correctly. "From 1 January 1998 to 10 June 1999 the KLA killed 988 people and kidnapped 287; in the period from 10 June 1999 to 11 November 2001, when NATO took control in Kosovo, 847 were reported to have been killed and 1,154 kidnapped."

it was just NATO preferred to take sides

as for the Donbass, the Ukraine began indiscriminately killing the "separatists" by shelling and bombing cities and villages from the day they decided to separate from that fine, democratic and absolutely not corrupted state

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

1-Dec

schnuersi said:

BTW.: What had happened earlier in history is irrelevant. If you do wrong, you do wrong. End of story

Not so. Because some wrongs come unpunished and quickly swept under the carpet while others result in severe repercussions and finger pointing. Same old "do as I said, not as I do" adage.

schnuersi said:

There is allways one and only one wrong way driver

Well, I'm sure a crowd of migrating lemmings will agree with you

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

1-Dec

mpopenker said:

Not so. Because some wrongs come unpunished and quickly swept under the carpet while others result in severe repercussions and finger pointing. Same old "do as I said, not as I do" adage.

Also irrelevant. The circumstances don't matter.
It is impossible to justify one wrong with another. There is no arguing around it.

mpopenker said:

Well, I'm sure a crowd of migrating lemmings will agree with you

Again exactly the arguments the wrong way driver would use.
And also in the wrong context. Migrating Lemmings have to migrate because of the inadequacy or depletion of their food source. The migrating majority is right and does so for good reasons. If they would not they would have mass starvation.
BTW Lemmings do not commit suicide. That is a myth. They just migrate to other areas to find new food and lower the population density. Which is a rather smart way to handle such a problem. It is dumb to argue if in the line "all go this way, they must be wrong because I want the other way". This is just self centered hubris paired with stubborness.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

1-Dec

schnuersi said:

The circumstances don't matter.

They do afterwards. Otherwise the entire world would be sanctioning the US for their sins in Vietnam, A-stan, Iraq, Libya, etc etc

schnuersi said:

It is dumb to argue if in the line "all go this way, they must be wrong because I want the other way"

are you arguing that the majority is always right and standing against it is always wrong?

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

WTAF?

I still want justice for my countrymen on MH17, murdered by Russian cunts when they shot down (another) airliner. As far as I’m concerned, the Ukraine can stop their counteroffensive at Vladivostok.

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

as for the Donbass, the Ukraine began indiscriminately killing* the "separatists" by shelling and bombing cities and villages from the day they** decided to separate

*by returning fire at invading Russian troops.

**“they” being the Russian army cosplaying as “homegrown separatist militia heroes”.

??? ??? ????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ? ???, ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ?????.

Ukraine ought to have given up her nuclear capability by expending it on Moscow.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

1-Dec

DavidPawley said:

murdered by Russian cunts when they shot down (another) airliner.

well, Ukrainian air forces have a history of 1) shooting down airliners (as well as agricultural tractors) with obsolescent SAMs that went wild and 2) denying their own acts

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

Oh yeah, which airliners?

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