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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 214757 views.
mpopenker

From: mpopenker

1-Dec

schnuersi said:

BTW.: What had happened earlier in history is irrelevant. If you do wrong, you do wrong. End of story

Not so. Because some wrongs come unpunished and quickly swept under the carpet while others result in severe repercussions and finger pointing. Same old "do as I said, not as I do" adage.

schnuersi said:

There is allways one and only one wrong way driver

Well, I'm sure a crowd of migrating lemmings will agree with you

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

1-Dec

mpopenker said:

Not so. Because some wrongs come unpunished and quickly swept under the carpet while others result in severe repercussions and finger pointing. Same old "do as I said, not as I do" adage.

Also irrelevant. The circumstances don't matter.
It is impossible to justify one wrong with another. There is no arguing around it.

mpopenker said:

Well, I'm sure a crowd of migrating lemmings will agree with you

Again exactly the arguments the wrong way driver would use.
And also in the wrong context. Migrating Lemmings have to migrate because of the inadequacy or depletion of their food source. The migrating majority is right and does so for good reasons. If they would not they would have mass starvation.
BTW Lemmings do not commit suicide. That is a myth. They just migrate to other areas to find new food and lower the population density. Which is a rather smart way to handle such a problem. It is dumb to argue if in the line "all go this way, they must be wrong because I want the other way". This is just self centered hubris paired with stubborness.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

1-Dec

schnuersi said:

The circumstances don't matter.

They do afterwards. Otherwise the entire world would be sanctioning the US for their sins in Vietnam, A-stan, Iraq, Libya, etc etc

schnuersi said:

It is dumb to argue if in the line "all go this way, they must be wrong because I want the other way"

are you arguing that the majority is always right and standing against it is always wrong?

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

WTAF?

I still want justice for my countrymen on MH17, murdered by Russian cunts when they shot down (another) airliner. As far as I’m concerned, the Ukraine can stop their counteroffensive at Vladivostok.

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

as for the Donbass, the Ukraine began indiscriminately killing* the "separatists" by shelling and bombing cities and villages from the day they** decided to separate

*by returning fire at invading Russian troops.

**“they” being the Russian army cosplaying as “homegrown separatist militia heroes”.

??? ??? ????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ? ???, ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ?????.

Ukraine ought to have given up her nuclear capability by expending it on Moscow.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

1-Dec

DavidPawley said:

murdered by Russian cunts when they shot down (another) airliner.

well, Ukrainian air forces have a history of 1) shooting down airliners (as well as agricultural tractors) with obsolescent SAMs that went wild and 2) denying their own acts

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

Oh yeah, which airliners?

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

1-Dec

DavidPawley said:

Ukraine ought to have given up her nuclear capability by expending it on Moscow.

First, Ukraine never had any control over nuclear weapons positioned there, they all were controlled from Moscow. So, literally, they never held the "red button". Same as Germans do not have any control over American nuclear weapons stationed there.

Second, had they kept the useless nukes, they'd sold most of the to the highest bidder by the 2010 the latest, same way they did with remaining cruise missiles and lots of missile tech from their Yuzhnoe design bureau. So I guess in that case US or EU or both would have steamrolled it by that time as well.

DavidPawley said:

by returning fire at invading Russian troops.

So, the air strike against the administrative building in the center of Lugansk on June 2nd, 2014, which killed 8 and wounded 28 civilians, was "returning fire on Russian troops"?

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-unspun-luhansk-blast/25410384.html

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

The accident resulted from combat-missile launches during joint Ukrainian-Russian military air-defence exercises.[3] The exercises were held at the Russian-controlled training ground of the 31st Russian Black Sea Fleet Research center on Cape Opuk near the city of Kerch in Crimea. Ukraine eventually admitted that it might have caused the crash, probably by an errant S-200 missile fired by its armed forces.[4] Ukraine paid $15 million to surviving family members of the 78 victims ($200,000 per victim).[5][6]
 

Russian officials dismissed the American claim as "unworthy of attention,"[16] and Russian president Vladimir Putin told the press the next day that "the weapons used in those exercises had such characteristics that make it impossible for them to reach the air corridor through which the plane was moving."[16]

So what was your point again? That UKR paid compensation and RUS lied about the events?

Patton was right.

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