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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 214728 views.
DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

WTAF?

I still want justice for my countrymen on MH17, murdered by Russian cunts when they shot down (another) airliner. As far as I’m concerned, the Ukraine can stop their counteroffensive at Vladivostok.

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

as for the Donbass, the Ukraine began indiscriminately killing* the "separatists" by shelling and bombing cities and villages from the day they** decided to separate

*by returning fire at invading Russian troops.

**“they” being the Russian army cosplaying as “homegrown separatist militia heroes”.

??? ??? ????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ? ???, ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ?????.

Ukraine ought to have given up her nuclear capability by expending it on Moscow.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

1-Dec

DavidPawley said:

murdered by Russian cunts when they shot down (another) airliner.

well, Ukrainian air forces have a history of 1) shooting down airliners (as well as agricultural tractors) with obsolescent SAMs that went wild and 2) denying their own acts

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

Oh yeah, which airliners?

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

1-Dec

DavidPawley said:

Ukraine ought to have given up her nuclear capability by expending it on Moscow.

First, Ukraine never had any control over nuclear weapons positioned there, they all were controlled from Moscow. So, literally, they never held the "red button". Same as Germans do not have any control over American nuclear weapons stationed there.

Second, had they kept the useless nukes, they'd sold most of the to the highest bidder by the 2010 the latest, same way they did with remaining cruise missiles and lots of missile tech from their Yuzhnoe design bureau. So I guess in that case US or EU or both would have steamrolled it by that time as well.

DavidPawley said:

by returning fire at invading Russian troops.

So, the air strike against the administrative building in the center of Lugansk on June 2nd, 2014, which killed 8 and wounded 28 civilians, was "returning fire on Russian troops"?

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-unspun-luhansk-blast/25410384.html

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

The accident resulted from combat-missile launches during joint Ukrainian-Russian military air-defence exercises.[3] The exercises were held at the Russian-controlled training ground of the 31st Russian Black Sea Fleet Research center on Cape Opuk near the city of Kerch in Crimea. Ukraine eventually admitted that it might have caused the crash, probably by an errant S-200 missile fired by its armed forces.[4] Ukraine paid $15 million to surviving family members of the 78 victims ($200,000 per victim).[5][6]
 

Russian officials dismissed the American claim as "unworthy of attention,"[16] and Russian president Vladimir Putin told the press the next day that "the weapons used in those exercises had such characteristics that make it impossible for them to reach the air corridor through which the plane was moving."[16]

So what was your point again? That UKR paid compensation and RUS lied about the events?

Patton was right.

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

“Ukraine never had any control over nuclear weapons positioned there, they all were controlled from Moscow.”
 

So that means that the security guarantee by Russia in exchange for surrendering the nukes was not legitimate? Oh, okay then, the Russians are allowed to invade then, see, they aren’t breaking any promises!

“the air strike against the administrative building in the center of Lugansk on June 2nd, 2014, which killed 8 and wounded 28 civilians, was "returning fire on Russian troops"?”

Yes.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

1-Dec

My point was that UKR denied (and still officially denies) its guilt and paid compensations only after significant pressure from Israel

They also actively denied that it was their own errant SA missile that killed two unlucky Polish farmers several days ago, despite the obvious facts

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63656664

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

1-Dec

Pathetic attempt at moral equivalence with your constant whataboutism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17

is not remotely comparable to 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17)[a] was a scheduled passenger flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur that was shot down by Russian forces[4] on 17 July 2014, while flying over eastern Ukraine. All 283 passengers and 15 crew were killed.[5] Contact with the aircraft, a Boeing 777-200ER, was lost when it was about 50 km (31 mi) from the Ukraine–Russia border, and wreckage from the aircraft fell near Hrabove in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, 40 km (25 mi) from the border.[6] The shoot-down occurred during the war in Donbas over territory controlled by Russian separatist forces.[7]

The responsibility for investigation was delegated to the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) and the Dutch-led joint investigation team (JIT), who in 2016 reported that the airliner had been downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine.[3][8] The JIT found that the Buk originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade of the Russian Federation[9]
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