Honestly the part about supporting dictators while preaching democracy is not new or even problematic . countries have interests, not friends Bismark said and its 100%true

Much post WW2 Europe was in run on the authoritarian system almost into late 70's , Spain,Portugal,Grecce,Turkey and many other countries had strong autoritarian streaks . so up to 80's there is little Liberal democracy to be seen even in Europe. but compared to today most had more freedom in the 80s and 90s than today, Stazi that was so despised in the 80-90s would now look like regular boyscouts. Merger of corporate and governmental powers with little if any oversight is at its core fascism no mater how much cellophane you wrap it in.

Orwells 1984 is being enacted at the blistering speed these days. 

Any ways politicians do what politicians do but please just refrain from using democracy a justification for anything its as real as freedom fries.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Much post WW2 Europe was in run on the authoritarian system almost into late 70's , Spain,Portugal,Grecce,Turkey and many other countries had strong autoritarian streaks . so up to 80's there is little Liberal democracy to be seen even in Europe. but compared to today most had more freedom in the 80s and 90s than today, Stazi that was so despised in the 80-90s would now look like regular boyscouts. Merger of corporate and governmental powers with little if any oversight is at its core fascism no mater how much cellophane you wrap it in.

Are you on Drugs?
Most of post WW2 Europe indeed had been ruled by authoriatarian systems but not because of the three countries belonging to NATO (Turkey is not part of Europe BTW) but because of the Iron curtain and the communist dictatorship.
Downplaying the inhuman and brutal Stasi is just so far out it makes me wonder if you ever read a history book. These people routinely incarcerated and murdered people. For no good reason and with no resposibility to anyone. Writing they look like boyscouts nowadays is utter bullshit. These guys where on par with Gestapo, KGB and all the other murderous secret police organisations that scourged the world during the Cold War.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Orwells 1984 is being enacted at the blistering speed these days.

Did you even read 1984? If yes its obvious you did not understand.
There is a huge difference. The lack of data protection in the internet is not a feature its a bug. Furthermore people are fulle aware and decide to (mostly) ignore the matter. If they would not and awareness would impact the current business models things would change in record time. The surveilance by western inteligence agencies, while certainyl questionable, doesn't lead to people disappearing. They do not incarcerate and murder critics or people they do not like. They are held responsible. Even people who are convicted of terrorism have rights. Its not even the same sport as what autoritarian regimes did and do.
In 1984 and real authoritatian regimes people have no say. They also get no information. Most important they have no rights. All of this is so much not the case today its not even comparable to the situation during the Cold War era or the fictonal history in 1984.
There are a few places that fit the Orwellian dystopia on earth these days. The most obvious one is North Korea. They a pretty damn close. Including the use of new speak with death due to famine relabled to population density adjusments or such BS. A runner up is China. There is none in Europe or the "Western World". Not even most of the less developed countries qualify.

I dont think you understod me right or i haven writen it right.

Not downplaying communist authoritarian regimes in Eastern Europe, its just that aside from a couple of countries west or better jet south Europe were mostly authoritarian almost til 80's , better in the sense of being market economies not being more democratic, and like mentioned Democracy is a very broad concept, so not quite certain where you draw the line on what is and what is not it in any case we are running on thin ice in EU and US is no better just look at the shit show for next elections, the guy that won this time around by hiding in the basement and every MSM outlet and CIA spook running interference, is looking to be fast tracked to another mandate possibly by sweeping under the rug of any and all rival candidates, and we all see that guy doesn't know where he is most of the time, you literally have people handling him around on live TV and folks holding the plug to the cameras. Biden is utter definiton of Pupet at this stage , if he wins next term they will be running a corpse around pretending he is still alive as Kamala Harris might be just too stupid to even run as a puppet. 

I don't think data protection is what is driving the overwhelming surveillance and censorship landscape, first round of extremely invasive state apparatus kinda grew post 9/11 , and since it has only grown in size and scope , courrent post COVID , disinfo free speech BS is ridiculous, Germany actually leads the push for persecuting speech with 8500 or so cases under investigation.  And of course, its not just speech that is being regulated, broad aspects, everything from your money to your house hold heating its getting out of hand , and then in EU there is an unelected EU commison that is drafting cca 70+% of all legislature that is then adopted by member countries, and scope of EU commission powers is growing even tough is run by most incompetent folks we could fins in EU , with Ursula that is walkinf and talking desaster in every post she ever held, now wants even more powers.  Its crazy to hink that authoritarians in Poland and Hungary are more democratic than most of the rest ,crazy years ago you would think these were the problem children of EU now it seems the problem is at it core. Who the fuck voted for the new green transition that is being showed down our throats on wings of Ukrainian war , 

Governments that are always the no1 source of disinfo are now pretending they are policing speech to protect against disinformation, beyond laughable after 2 years of nonstop lying over covid and big tech being onboard is like mentioned base premise of fascism.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

and like mentioned Democracy is a very broad concept

Yes it is.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

so not quite certain where you draw the line on what is and what is not it in any case we are running on thin ice in EU and US is no better just look at the shit show for next elections,

Democracy doesn't mean the government is of your liking. Or particulary competent. There is a significant chance you vote for someone else. The point is there are elections, that are not manipulated, the rules are known and the same for all and the result stands.
Nobody ever said democracy is perfect or the governments of democracies are. But for some time now it seems people think democracy means their prefered candidate and/or party has to win or its unfair, opressive of what not. If a candidate is a puppe that is absolutely ok if he is voted into office. If Donal Duck or a Teltubby would be voted so be it. The question is not if democracy is wrong or not working but rather why the majority of voters thought this candidate best represented their interests.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

and since it has only grown in size and scope , courrent post COVID , disinfo free speech BS is ridiculous, Germany actually leads the push for persecuting speech with 8500 or so cases under investigation.

Desinformation is not state run. Actually a lot of the desinformation and BS out there is BECAUSE of free speech.
Its outright rediculous that Germany or german governmental agencies is infringing on free speach. Free speach doesn't mean you can say what ever you want. It just means you can say whatever you want within the boundaries set by the law. Its common all over the world to limit free speech in a way its forbidden and punishable to insult people. This is the case in Germany as well. We also have some laws that limit the amount of BS and lies you can tell in public. These laws are neither new nor obscure. Its just that they started to hold people accountable for the BS they put on the internet in the same way as if you had said it in public. The same law. The internet is not a lawless zone.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

and then in EU there is an unelected EU commison that is drafting cca 70+% of all legislature that is then adopted by member countries, and scope of EU commission powers is growing even tough is run by most incompetent folks we could fins in EU

They are only drafting. Basically they make suggestions. The laws still have to pass the EU parliament and the national legislation to come into effect. So there is hardly any controll from Brussels.
Its also not true that the Commission is gaining power. Quite the contrary. Compared to the situation in the '90 and early '00 its loosing power. With the parliament getting ever more important.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Governments that are always the no1 source of disinfo

No they are not anymore. The no. 1 source for BS and disinformation is the internet. No governement has nearly the capacity to keep up with the sheer amount of crap that is generated there every minute.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

beyond laughable after 2 years of nonstop lying

So you are saying there has been no pandemic?
 

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

is like mentioned base premise of fascism

I don't think you really know what fascim means. Because what you argue has nothing to do with it. Not every authoritatrian government is illegal and even the ones that are usually aren't fascist. The list of true fascist regimes is really short.

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Thread on the Storm Shadow land-attack cruise missile delivered by the UK that provides Ukraine, in principle, wit... https://t.co/JdnVzf03qy

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Nice thread on Storm Shadow:

you know mate, we live on rather opposite ends of the political spectrum. But I wholeheartedly agree with you here.

Strictly speaking, fascism is the truest form of democracy. All groups (corporations as fascist theorists called them) have representatives in an assembly.  

Whereas various critics assure us the current system limits the participation of certain groups.

schnuersi said:

Democracy doesn't mean the government is of your liking. Or particulary competent. There is a significant chance you vote for someone else. The point is there are elections, that are not manipulated, the rules are known and the same for all and the result stands. Nobody ever said democracy is perfect or the governments of democracies are. But for some time now it seems people think democracy means their prefered candidate and/or party has to win or its unfair, opressive of what not. If a candidate is a puppe that is absolutely ok if he is voted into office. If Donal Duck or a Teltubby would be voted so be it. The question is not if democracy is wrong or not working but rather why the majority of voters thought this candidate best represented their interests.

That is the whole problem process is rigged,and rules change on the fly, to prevent the unanointed from reaching office. In US  GOP and DNC cook their process to a degree we haven't seen in EU jet but you do have parties in Germany that you surveil and try to outlaw all the time. Last i checked EU even sanctioned Austria when Heider came to power , The newest from Freedom fries land is they actually passed a law that is targeting Trump specifically and is only valid for one year !!! . 

schnuersi said:

Desinformation is not state run. Actually a lot of the desinformation and BS out there is BECAUSE of free speech. Its outright rediculous that Germany or german governmental agencies is infringing on free speach. Free speach doesn't mean you can say what ever you want. It just means you can say whatever you want within the boundaries set by the law. Its common all over the world to limit free speech in a way its forbidden and punishable to insult people. This is the case in Germany as well. We also have some laws that limit the amount of BS and lies you can tell in public. These laws are neither new nor obscure. Its just that they started to hold people accountable for the BS they put on the internet in the same way as if you had said it in public. The same law. The internet is not a lawless zone.

Equating shit folks post on social media with shit that is published by professionals is not quite comparing apples to apples , MSM might not be state owned anymore but it still acts as state affiliated media 99% of the time. Haven't seen any 'professionals' facing consequences for lies they tell , as long as it state sanctioned lie. Courrent misinformation and disinformation campaigns  are fully state affiliated and are not going at loyal MSM

This used to be stuff said for MSM in 3rd world countries , now its very much the case in all of the developed world ,no one even needs to be killed and only few are imprisoned as most willingly and eagerly do propaganda work. 

''In much of the world, journalism is morphing into propaganda, as governments dictate what can and can’t be printed. In the last year alone, hundreds of reporters have been killed or imprisoned for doing their jobs. The UN reports that 85% of the world’s population experienced a decline in press freedom in their country in recent years. 

schnuersi said:

They are only drafting. Basically they make suggestions. The laws still have to pass the EU parliament and the national legislation to come into effect. So there is hardly any controll from Brussels. Its also not true that the Commission is gaining power. Quite the contrary. Compared to the situation in the '90 and early '00 its loosing power. With the parliament getting ever more important.

Seriusly , EU commision is only one drafting , EU parliment is a ruber stamp , has no practical influence and we both know who sits in EU parliment ,washed out national politicans who are there for one reason only , get $$$ for doing nothing ,Sadly i had the privilege to work with some on them on new gun legislation EU pushed down everyone's throats because French got their panties wett ,from willingly exporting terror and war in ME and getting backlash at home. No Commission is gaining power as Council lost it .

schnuersi said:

No they are not anymore. The no. 1 source for BS and disinformation is the internet. No governement has nearly the capacity to keep up with the sheer amount of crap that is generated there every minute.

Again it not apples to apples  , Bs folks say on the internet is inconsequential, BS spread through MSM based on PR by the government is not. Goverment doesn't need keeping up , professionals at MSM do it. We have seen how that works ,at the latest with Twitter files we also see that now all the big tech companies and much of the MSM has folks from intel agencies and law enforcement employed for no aparent reason reason  , enforcing  party lines is seamless without much external input needed. Independent media is constantly racing towards new low's, particularly amusing was the latest Pentagon leaker where if FBI wouldn't have showed fast enough WAPO or NYT would probably make citizens arest themselves .   

schnuersi said:

So you are saying there has been no pandemic?

There was a pandemic but more importantly, there were policies and directives MSM media disseminated to the last possible day, that were outright lies and often counter to any science they purported to promote that were used to craft actual policies, fucking up people's lives while enriching select few, Germany was one the leaders in the disinformation field and policies it crafted upon lies it itself disseminated, constant BS scaremongering over more infectious variants that are always also much less lethal. Instead of serious consequences for egregious policies and lies were taken over 3 years of bs lying moved on to Ukraine ,Green transition and just amplified,but yes let's prosecute folks for the inconsequential shit they say on Facebook.

I guess fascists only exist when there are folks in power we don't like, line MSM was running on Trump for years.  

Getting back to the subject of weapons in Ukraine cough cough:

Superb, video game esque first person view of the GM94 pump action grenade launcher in combat:

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First person battle near Kremmina area in Luhansk. Russian soldier seems to be using a GM-94 pump-action grenade la... https://t.co/47L2XUN0b3

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Lessons learned from Ukraine on how the current 'command post' is a death trap in the face of modern surveillance and long range precision fires:

https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Journals/Military-Review/English-Edition-Archives/May-June-2023/Graveyard-of-Command-Posts/

Fascinating slide from the article:

And in light of the Storm Shadow + Challenger in Ukraine:

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Sadly i had the privilege to work with some on them on new gun legislation EU pushed down everyone's throats because French got their panties wett ,from willingly exporting terror and war in ME and getting backlash at home.

Historically, French nobility always had a problem with the concept of "armed citizenry". The French revolution opened a small window of opportunity for the French people to be armed, but since the '90s the successive French governments are acting hard to close this chapter.

There is no direct link to "exporting terror and war in Middle East and getting backlash at home", it's a trend much older than that.