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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 396525 views.
farmplinker2

From: farmplinker2

11/5/23

Strictly speaking, fascism is the truest form of democracy. All groups (corporations as fascist theorists called them) have representatives in an assembly.  

Whereas various critics assure us the current system limits the participation of certain groups.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

12/5/23

schnuersi said:

Democracy doesn't mean the government is of your liking. Or particulary competent. There is a significant chance you vote for someone else. The point is there are elections, that are not manipulated, the rules are known and the same for all and the result stands. Nobody ever said democracy is perfect or the governments of democracies are. But for some time now it seems people think democracy means their prefered candidate and/or party has to win or its unfair, opressive of what not. If a candidate is a puppe that is absolutely ok if he is voted into office. If Donal Duck or a Teltubby would be voted so be it. The question is not if democracy is wrong or not working but rather why the majority of voters thought this candidate best represented their interests.

That is the whole problem process is rigged,and rules change on the fly, to prevent the unanointed from reaching office. In US  GOP and DNC cook their process to a degree we haven't seen in EU jet but you do have parties in Germany that you surveil and try to outlaw all the time. Last i checked EU even sanctioned Austria when Heider came to power , The newest from Freedom fries land is they actually passed a law that is targeting Trump specifically and is only valid for one year !!! . 

schnuersi said:

Desinformation is not state run. Actually a lot of the desinformation and BS out there is BECAUSE of free speech. Its outright rediculous that Germany or german governmental agencies is infringing on free speach. Free speach doesn't mean you can say what ever you want. It just means you can say whatever you want within the boundaries set by the law. Its common all over the world to limit free speech in a way its forbidden and punishable to insult people. This is the case in Germany as well. We also have some laws that limit the amount of BS and lies you can tell in public. These laws are neither new nor obscure. Its just that they started to hold people accountable for the BS they put on the internet in the same way as if you had said it in public. The same law. The internet is not a lawless zone.

Equating shit folks post on social media with shit that is published by professionals is not quite comparing apples to apples , MSM might not be state owned anymore but it still acts as state affiliated media 99% of the time. Haven't seen any 'professionals' facing consequences for lies they tell , as long as it state sanctioned lie. Courrent misinformation and disinformation campaigns  are fully state affiliated and are not going at loyal MSM

This used to be stuff said for MSM in 3rd world countries , now its very much the case in all of the developed world ,no one even needs to be killed and only few are imprisoned as most willingly and eagerly do propaganda work. 

''In much of the world, journalism is morphing into propaganda, as governments dictate what can and can’t be printed. In the last year alone, hundreds of reporters have been killed or imprisoned for doing their jobs. The UN reports that 85% of the world’s population experienced a decline in press freedom in their country in recent years. 

schnuersi said:

They are only drafting. Basically they make suggestions. The laws still have to pass the EU parliament and the national legislation to come into effect. So there is hardly any controll from Brussels. Its also not true that the Commission is gaining power. Quite the contrary. Compared to the situation in the '90 and early '00 its loosing power. With the parliament getting ever more important.

Seriusly , EU commision is only one drafting , EU parliment is a ruber stamp , has no practical influence and we both know who sits in EU parliment ,washed out national politicans who are there for one reason only , get $$$ for doing nothing ,Sadly i had the privilege to work with some on them on new gun legislation EU pushed down everyone's throats because French got their panties wett ,from willingly exporting terror and war in ME and getting backlash at home. No Commission is gaining power as Council lost it .

schnuersi said:

No they are not anymore. The no. 1 source for BS and disinformation is the internet. No governement has nearly the capacity to keep up with the sheer amount of crap that is generated there every minute.

Again it not apples to apples  , Bs folks say on the internet is inconsequential, BS spread through MSM based on PR by the government is not. Goverment doesn't need keeping up , professionals at MSM do it. We have seen how that works ,at the latest with Twitter files we also see that now all the big tech companies and much of the MSM has folks from intel agencies and law enforcement employed for no aparent reason reason  , enforcing  party lines is seamless without much external input needed. Independent media is constantly racing towards new low's, particularly amusing was the latest Pentagon leaker where if FBI wouldn't have showed fast enough WAPO or NYT would probably make citizens arest themselves .   

schnuersi said:

So you are saying there has been no pandemic?

There was a pandemic but more importantly, there were policies and directives MSM media disseminated to the last possible day, that were outright lies and often counter to any science they purported to promote that were used to craft actual policies, fucking up people's lives while enriching select few, Germany was one the leaders in the disinformation field and policies it crafted upon lies it itself disseminated, constant BS scaremongering over more infectious variants that are always also much less lethal. Instead of serious consequences for egregious policies and lies were taken over 3 years of bs lying moved on to Ukraine ,Green transition and just amplified,but yes let's prosecute folks for the inconsequential shit they say on Facebook.

I guess fascists only exist when there are folks in power we don't like, line MSM was running on Trump for years.  

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

12/5/23

Getting back to the subject of weapons in Ukraine cough cough:

Superb, video game esque first person view of the GM94 pump action grenade launcher in combat:

Lessons learned from Ukraine on how the current 'command post' is a death trap in the face of modern surveillance and long range precision fires:

https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Journals/Military-Review/English-Edition-Archives/May-June-2023/Graveyard-of-Command-Posts/

Fascinating slide from the article:

And in light of the Storm Shadow + Challenger in Ukraine:

  • Edited 12 May 2023 3:06  by  gatnerd
EmericD

From: EmericD

12/5/23

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Sadly i had the privilege to work with some on them on new gun legislation EU pushed down everyone's throats because French got their panties wett ,from willingly exporting terror and war in ME and getting backlash at home.

Historically, French nobility always had a problem with the concept of "armed citizenry". The French revolution opened a small window of opportunity for the French people to be armed, but since the '90s the successive French governments are acting hard to close this chapter.

There is no direct link to "exporting terror and war in Middle East and getting backlash at home", it's a trend much older than that.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

12/5/23

Armed citizenry is universally despised, even in Ukraine they first handed out arms, but have already 'recalled' the guns and are threatening criminal prosecution for the outstanding guns not returned and that it in midst of ongoing war.

I spent two years lobbying and drafting our gun laws and had the luck that we had at the time 'far right' government that was open to it so we were able to enact one of the best gun legislations in EU within the limitations of the EU framework 2 or 3 paragraphs of the gun law is actually my text 1:1 , funny enough the far right government that was despised and i was no fan of but like it or not was most open to the gun law amendments so we used that to the full.

It seems French 'nobility' mostly despises its plebs, couple of weeks ago, perma- tan probably buys the same shower body paint as Trump, Christine Lagarde was promoting another freedom tool digital while invoking Batacalan ( she literally said that attackers have been financed with small donations so with the digital currency we can control that !!?).

I think it would be a hard sell to really claim foreign policy promoting war and regime change projects in Syria and Libya that destabilized the ME and North Africa has no backlash in the form of ME folks coming to France intent on committing terrorist acts? Terror mostly happens in countries involved in this kind of projects be it Russia,US , UK or France. and is always directly linked to domestic or foreign policy of said countries.

autogun

From: autogun

12/5/23

schnuersi said:

Nobody ever said democracy is perfect or the governments of democracies are.

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947:

‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

12/5/23

First Leopard on the frontlines

Augmented RPG7 warheads

Still waiting for Romanian TRI-RPG to appear in Ukraine 

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

12/5/23

graylion said:

you know mate, we live on rather opposite ends of the political spectrum.

What makes you say that?
It would be quite difficult BTW because I don't belong to any spectrum. I am not intrested in doctrines or wings just in solutions.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

12/5/23

I am not going to answer all you arguments. Besides being to lazy I also think its pointless in a discussion, written on the internet.
Furthermore I don't want to derail this threat too much.

Just on thing for all you arguments: What you do is pretty common these days but this is neither an excuse or makes it better or understanable in the slightest.
You pick one extreme incident or circiumstance, often completly out of context, and argue as if its the average normal case. Even if the extreme case is true it can by no means be used to draw conclusions of the general whole.
This is why people like me say things like: democracy is not perfect but its better than all alternatives.
You argue in the lines: its not perfect in they way I want so it must be bad and everything around it and related to it are bad and need to be abolished.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

12/5/23

farmplinker2 said:

Strictly speaking, fascism is the truest form of democracy. All groups (corporations as fascist theorists called them) have representatives in an assembly.

Whereas various critics assure us the current system limits the participation of certain groups.

In this case its pretty obvious that the definition of fascism you use is not the one generally used.
Fascism by definition is an authoritatian rule with the main goal of centralising power with the foundation of a (in a nutshell) blood and soil ideology.
It is true that fascism is highly flexible in its means to get into power, maximising it and if possible increase it. But in the end its just temporary. Fascism uses free market economy as long at it serves its needs. If it doesn'T its replaced in the blink of an idea. By all means necessary. Which is on of the other defining elements of fascism. The end justifies the means for a fascist.

So by definition fascism is directly oposit of any form of democracy. For a time a fascit leader or regime might tolerate some form of democracy or political participation if it serves his or its needs. As soon as it doesn't its gone. Or some form of token or fake participation remains. Fascism also shared a lot similarities with Communism. The difference is in the doctrinal foundation. Communists define by class fascists by nationality. The regime of North Korea for example could be text book fascist if they would not have the class struggle in their background and ideology. If this would be exchanged for nationality and ancestry they would be fascist.

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