gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24-Feb by gatnerd; 118160 views.
In reply toRe: msg 490
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

24-Apr

UR-77 mine clearing charge used by Donbas militia against UA position 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlRLNAz9Jpk&t=111s

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/I_6l3AyzV4g

In reply toRe: msg 487
autogun

From: autogun

24-Apr

A couple of points about primers:

Not all aircraft guns use electric priming: the GAU-12/U (AV-8B) and GAU-22/A (F-35) fire NATO 25 x 137 ammo which uses percussion priming. The GAU-8/A (A-10 aircraft and Goalkeeper CIWS) uses percussion-primed 30 x 173 NATO.

The US has developed a percussion-primed version of the M230 Chain Gun for naval use (30 x 113B ammo), but I don't think it has any takers so far.

Interestingly, Nexter makes two versions of the 30M550 series cannon in 30 x 113B, differing in the characteristics of the electric priming (one being relatively insensitive, intended mainly for use by naval aircraft). The 30M791 (30 x 150B in Rafale) also has the insensitive priming.

Yes, the USN does take precautions in handling the electric-primed 20 x 102 ammo for the Phalanx system. When it is in the magazine, the base of the ammo, containing the primer, is protected from electrical interference.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

24-Apr

Take it with a grain of salt with all the propaganda being published. So it was either Russians shelling themselves while in Bucha or Ukrainians shelling the Russians while they occupied in Bucha? Which sounds more likely? Both sides are using more or less the same artillery types and ordanance.

But even more amusing is a claim in another article that says flechettes are practically unseen in modern conflict.

https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2022/04/24/what-are-flechettes-a-brutal-weapon-used-in-ukraine

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/18/flechette-projectile-ukraine-russia/?utm_source=feedly

EmericD

From: EmericD

24-Apr

schnuersi said:

So from my point of view there are two possibilities. Either the safety meansures are way to cautios and interfere with the sensible operation of the system or the ammo for Phalanx is more sensitive than others and this would be a flaw.

Third option: your typical modern boat is radiating much more power than a tank or a plane, and once the ammo is in the Phalanx magazine the primer is shielded from HERO, so it's no longer a problem.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

24-Apr

EmericD said:

Third option: your typical modern boat is radiating much more power than a tank or a plane, and once the ammo is in the Phalanx magazine the primer is shielded from HERO, so it's no longer a problem.

Sorry but to me this is a design flaw. Phalanx, the gun the system uses and the ammo are not new. The system has been in use for decades.
IF the primer is that sensitive they should have replaced it decades ago by one that is safe to handle. With all the focus on safety. Insensitive ammo etc the solution for handling 20 mm ammo of a legacy design that is not up to modern standards is to basically turn the ship off?

Officially in the German army its forbidden to handle 120 mm ammo while wearing gloves. Because these could generate a static charge that might set off the primer... but this is toroughly ignored. Everybody handles the ammo with gloves. All the time. Nothing ever happend. During my service time it was forbidden to use cell phones when handling 120 mm ammo. But having it in a pocket was ok. As was using radios. This was back in the days when it was forbidden to use a cell phone at the gas station because people feared it might set off the fuel.
IF these old primers for the 20 mm ammo are really that sensitive that they will go off and its not just a posibility that is not zero and thus could be safely ignored IMHO there is no excuse for not immediatly replacing these primers because of safety concerns.

In reply toRe: msg 496
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

24-Apr

Another new one. Polish loitering munition WARMATE now being used:

https://www.wbgroup.pl/en/produkt/warmate-loitering-munnitions/

In reply toRe: msg 497
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

24-Apr

Mine clearing charge used against a building:

In reply toRe: msg 498
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

24-Apr

Fagot ATGM mounted on an off road golf cart as a 'micro technical' 

taschoene

From: taschoene

24-Apr

schnuersi said:

Sorry but to me this is a design flaw. Phalanx, the gun the system uses and the ammo are not new. The system has been in use for decades. IF the primer is that sensitive they should have replaced it decades ago by one that is safe to handle. With all the focus on safety. Insensitive ammo etc the solution for handling 20 mm ammo of a legacy design that is not up to modern standards is to basically turn the ship off?

In the early 1990s they did actually do work on an insensitive primer for the CIWS ammo.  

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA514389.pdf

It's not totally clear this was adopted, but it was mentioned in the FY93 Congressional budget discussions, so I suspect it actually was.  Which suggests that if the safety precautions are still in effect, It may be an abundance of caution issue rather than a definite need.

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