gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 161133 views.
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

24-Apr

EmericD said:

Third option: your typical modern boat is radiating much more power than a tank or a plane, and once the ammo is in the Phalanx magazine the primer is shielded from HERO, so it's no longer a problem.

Sorry but to me this is a design flaw. Phalanx, the gun the system uses and the ammo are not new. The system has been in use for decades.
IF the primer is that sensitive they should have replaced it decades ago by one that is safe to handle. With all the focus on safety. Insensitive ammo etc the solution for handling 20 mm ammo of a legacy design that is not up to modern standards is to basically turn the ship off?

Officially in the German army its forbidden to handle 120 mm ammo while wearing gloves. Because these could generate a static charge that might set off the primer... but this is toroughly ignored. Everybody handles the ammo with gloves. All the time. Nothing ever happend. During my service time it was forbidden to use cell phones when handling 120 mm ammo. But having it in a pocket was ok. As was using radios. This was back in the days when it was forbidden to use a cell phone at the gas station because people feared it might set off the fuel.
IF these old primers for the 20 mm ammo are really that sensitive that they will go off and its not just a posibility that is not zero and thus could be safely ignored IMHO there is no excuse for not immediatly replacing these primers because of safety concerns.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

24-Apr

Another new one. Polish loitering munition WARMATE now being used:

https://www.wbgroup.pl/en/produkt/warmate-loitering-munnitions/

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

24-Apr

Mine clearing charge used against a building:

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

24-Apr

Fagot ATGM mounted on an off road golf cart as a 'micro technical' 

taschoene

From: taschoene

24-Apr

schnuersi said:

Sorry but to me this is a design flaw. Phalanx, the gun the system uses and the ammo are not new. The system has been in use for decades. IF the primer is that sensitive they should have replaced it decades ago by one that is safe to handle. With all the focus on safety. Insensitive ammo etc the solution for handling 20 mm ammo of a legacy design that is not up to modern standards is to basically turn the ship off?

In the early 1990s they did actually do work on an insensitive primer for the CIWS ammo.  

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA514389.pdf

It's not totally clear this was adopted, but it was mentioned in the FY93 Congressional budget discussions, so I suspect it actually was.  Which suggests that if the safety precautions are still in effect, It may be an abundance of caution issue rather than a definite need.

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

24-Apr

SMFH.

HERO is not only regarding 20x102, it’s for all ordnance.

There are also personnel exclusion zones surrounding antennae on warships, to prevent injuries to people from high power RF emissions.

Also, EMCON is a thing, so “turn the ship off” is a silly way to look at it.

Your frame of reference is too limited to claim poor design.

17thfabn

From: 17thfabn

24-Apr

I was in the U.S. Coast Guard. 

It was standard when loading and unloading ANY type of ammunition to secure radio and radar transmissions. 

There was supposedly a rare chance that electronic transmission s could set them off. These ammunition types weren't some fancy highly sensitive types. 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

24-Apr

More craft production steel armor made in e. europe headed to Ukraine:

Tested against 5.45, 5.56, and 7.62x39 AP:

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