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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 190669 views.
graylion

From: graylion

23-Jun

Kocur_ said:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1531012132975910912.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1531067601006301184.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1531986405253079041.html 

Thankyou! This leaves me with the next interesting set of questions

1) Is RF jamming GPS in UA?

2) is US currently providing full GPS precision in UA?

And the other thing that is becoming obvious: They'll need Gepards in close attendance.

  • Edited 23 June 2022 7:24  by  graylion
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

23-Jun

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Probably holds true for Russians as well. Does it seem the force was prepared for a decade for invasion of Ukraine?

Russia started to prepare for a confrontation the minute Putin came to power. The war in Ukraine has been prepared for at least 10 years. More like 15. That is plain obvious now. It has been back than as well just nobody wanted to see it.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Exactly ! how many soldiers do Russians have in Ukraine? At best 200k , Ukrainans have 760.000+ and considering Russians are not drafting the 200k number is quite limited by any losses, vs 760K that can always increase no matter how many get killed. We are definetly not talking advantage in Theatre , there like said Ukraine holds at least 4:1 advantage, but yes it would be expected for one side or another to get numerical advantage at certain points on the front when it wants to advance.

I don't think you know how the draft works. The reserves do not inflate the first wave. They are used as second and third wave to free first wave from less important tasks. The Ukraine also has to spread their troops all over their country. The Russians can create a center of gravity or focal point and comit a large number of their troops in a small area. In the Donbas region where the fighting currently is the Russians have a significant numerical advantage. This is the theatre. Not the entire Ukraine.
Russia also had has tanks and heavy weapons. Significantly more.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

You know full well why Infantry can't just be rolled over ,particulary when awash with ATGMs and Manpads in open plains,

Are you on crack?
Infantry is the definition of can be rolled over ESPECIALLY in open ground.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

there is strenght in defense and even more so using cities to stage a defense,

No there isn't. Defense can never force a desision it can only delay one. To win you need to be on the offense. Defending cities is the direct oposit of open ground. This is where infantry is the most usefull... but it will leave the city to be defended destroyed in the process.
 

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

which part did you increase? Infantry'

No. Reserves mostly are used for secondary tasks. Not frontline fighting. Once they are retrained and reequiped their status changes and then they become regulars and are used at the frontline.
DO you really think each and every soldier UA has is sitting in a trench in Donbas? That is rediculous. The vast majority is somewhere in country doing something.
In contrast the 200k Troops Russia comitted are all involved in operations.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Like said we have watched 40mile columns of Russian trucks and armor on live TV , no artillery or MLRS , Tochka, strikes against an exposed target at known coordinates kinda hints not much capacity in range?

Just because we didn't see anydoesn' mean it didn't happen.
Besides at the start of the war the heavy elements of the UA army where mostly positioned in the East.

EmericD

From: EmericD

23-Jun

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Captured French self-propelled guns "Caesar" were taken to Uralvagonzavod A well-known French lawyer and politician, Regis de Castelnau, said that Russia had seized two intact Caeser self-propelled guns of French production in Ukraine and was now studying them at Uralvagonzavod. "Another achievement of Macron. Two French CAESAR self-propelled guns were captured by the Russians unharmed. Currently, they are at the Uralvagonzavod plant to be studied by reverse engineering. Thank you, Macron. We pay for it," writes Castelnau.

That could be true, of course, Russia seized a lot of equipment from UA in the past, so why not a CAESAR?

But personally, I wouldn't consider this guy as a reliable source of information.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

I meant the scenario of invading Ukraine not defending France. Let's say retaking Ukraine from a pupet regime Putin put in place.

I don't think that a single European country is prepared for this kind of scenario, but this case would of course involve the UN and trying to build a large coalition with other countries, something that was already done in the past.

graylion

From: graylion

23-Jun

EmericD said:

Mr. T (MrT4) said: I meant the scenario of invading Ukraine not defending France. Let's say retaking Ukraine from a pupet regime Putin put in place. I don't think that a single European country is prepared for this kind of scenario, but this case would of course involve the UN and trying to build a large coalition with other countries, something that was already done in the past.

Something like this will likely have to happen down the road - even with more arms being supplied UA will require 3:1 superiority to retake, same as RF needs now.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

23-Jun

schnuersi said:

Russia started to prepare for a confrontation the minute Putin came to power. The war in Ukraine has been prepared for at least 10 years. More like 15. That is plain obvious now. It has been back than as well just nobody wanted to see it.

That is probably why most of the $$ was invested in strategic deterence , navy ,and AD? Till the coup in Ukraine there was really no reason to look at Ukraine

schnuersi said:

I don't think you know how the draft works. The reserves do not inflate the first wave. They are used as second and third wave to free first wave from less important tasks. The Ukraine also has to spread their troops all over their country. The Russians can create a center of gravity or focal point and comit a large number of their troops in a small area. In the Donbas region where the fighting currently is the Russians have a significant numerical advantage. This is the theatre. Not the entire Ukraine. Russia also had has tanks and heavy weapons. Significantly more.

I dont think Ukrainans seen your memo , sending folks into the thick of the fight with days or even hours worth of training. Both sides can create a center of gravity one is just far less able of maneuver at this point.

Ukrainan forces at the start of the war , this is a huge arsenal dwarfing anything supplied so far.

This are operational numbers on 24.2  (2014 numbers were  way higher dont know where they disappeared 11K APCs '' tanks- 2,430 armored vehicles-11,435, -artillery  2,040 pieces.)

schnuersi said:

Are you on crack? Infantry is the definition of can be rolled over ESPECIALLY in open ground.

Its not like they are sitting in open fields (although there is a bunch of those with trenches dug). They are picking to defend from villages and cities  with bunch of open ground around them, making it very dangerous for opposing armor to aproach with extremely wide spread ATGM threat. Yes cities get wrecked, the same as they did in Iraq and Syria Faluja, Mosul, and Raqqa were practically razed to avoid too many casualties for the attacking force. Artillery or Airpower destroys infantry takes ground on severely degraded or destroyed positions even in the open ground trench systems.

The defense might not be making decisions but a much smaller force can hold a larger one, and an extraordinary quantity of ATGMs and MANPADS is definitely a big problem for any force to take on.

Russians have to keep forces on the long border as well , like said considering 760+k  Ukraine likely has considerably more forces on the line of contact. 

schnuersi said:

Just because we didn't see anydoesn' mean it didn't happen. Besides at the start of the war the heavy elements of the UA army where mostly positioned in the East.

If it happened you would be seeing it in HD resolution , they would throw at it any drone they had just to film it. The Sun would be running reruns for next 3 months with slight editing to give impression its not same ol same ol.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

23-Jun

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

That is probably why most of the $$ was invested in strategic deterence , navy ,and AD?

This is the case because such systems are more orders of magnitude more expensive than army equipment. Besides I did not say that did it right.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Till the coup in Ukraine there was really no reason to look at Ukraine

This is simply false. The talk about UA brack into the Motherland blabla started way earlier.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

sending folks into the thick of the fight with days or even hours worth of training.

Unproven claim.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Both sides can create a center of gravity one is just far less able of maneuver at this point.

No they can't because UA needs to secure their entire territory and all borders not just where the fighting currently is. If you argue that UA outnumbers Russia because of the entire number of UA military personel you are also wrong since Russia has ~1 million active and 2 million reserve personell. Which is more than UA has. In theatre and operational center of gravity the Russians outnumber the UA. In all fields that matter.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Ukrainan forces at the start of the war , this is a huge arsenal dwarfing anything supplied so far.

Nobody ever claimed they did not have material. But it was allmost entirely old garbage. BTW the Russians have sinificantly more.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

making it very dangerous for opposing armor to aproach with extremely wide spread ATGM threat.

Only if you don't know what you are doing. Its extremly easy to push trough a defensive line in open ground and conduct in depth manoeuver. IF you have the leadership, coordination and skill to do it. Having good equipment also helps. The Russians lack all of these. Their combat elements are also poorly integrated. Which is why they can't do it.
Its the same reason why they failed their approach to Kiev really. Its also why their airpower fizzles.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

The defense might not be making decisions but a much smaller force can hold a larger one, and an extraordinary quantity of ATGMs and MANPADS is definitely a big problem for any force to take on.

Problems are there to be overcome. The question is how a situation is handeled. The Russians decided to fall back to WW1 tactics. Which is slow and of limited effectiveness.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

If it happened you would be seeing it in HD resolution

BS
its basically random what situations geht caught, can be transmitted and are made available.
There are exeptionally few videos of tank vs tank or AFV vs AFV combat for example. Which is in large parts because this is very difficult to film.

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Russians have to keep forces on the long border as well

Yep and they have more than 1 million to do so. Furthermore its very unlikely that UA will invade Russian territory. So they are under much less pressure to secure all their borders.

Gr1ff1th

From: Gr1ff1th

24-Jun

Mr.T you really need to check your sources

https://i.4cdn.org/k/1656062892104.jpg

All the articles, all the posts, all the telegrams on this topic, lead back to the french guys tweet

That french guys tweet, refers to Russian telegram as a source, that telegram refers to a news article, that news article refers to the original tweet from the french guy as the source, just blatant circular shilling, but par for the course from Russian shills/propogandists 

  • Edited 24 June 2022 12:30  by  Gr1ff1th
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

24-Jun

If you read my post i said to treat it as hearsay as there are no pictures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JioofeYBqdI

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