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Ukraine weapons thread   General Military Discussion

Started 24/2/22 by gatnerd; 187047 views.
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

12-Jul

gatnerd said:

because I think the current plan of 'we'll just shoot down all the incoming missiles' is doomed for a hard reality check, barring some sort of 'sharks with laser beams on their head' secret development.

I angree.
Most likely the assumption is that "our" systems are more advanced enough to be able to pull this off.
Personally I find the low number of weapon systems especially short range on allmost all western ships quite concerning. Not only concidering AShM but also swarm attacks with drones, small boats or even small aircraft. The AShM saturation attack has been a thing for decades allready. If we look at the experiences made recently in the anti piracy missions and what happened to some navies around the world in the last decades it almost seems like there is sort of a carelessness and complacency .
 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

12-Jul

schnuersi said:

Most likely SMArt 155 has been delivered with the PzH2000.

That makes sense as thats the German load. 

Both seem for practical purposes basically identical in function?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMArt_155

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

12-Jul

gatnerd said:

Both seem for practical purposes basically identical in function?

Yes. It makes little difference.

This is the really scary stuff. For a tanker this a nightmare. Even more than DPICM.

autogun

From: autogun

12-Jul

I've re-read a rather unusual book: "Ghost Fleet: A Novel of the Next World War", by P.W .Singer and August Cole, published in 2015. It is set a few years into the future, and commences with a brief, devastating (but non-nuclear) assault on US forces by China and Russia, focusing on massive cyber attacks and the destruction of US monitoring and communications satellites. I particularly winced at the description of the problems experienced by high-tech aircraft like the F-35 which are stuffed full of electronic chips, many of which were indirectly sourced from China...
 

The US loses, with China seizing the Western Pacific including the Hawaiian Islands, and an uneasy cease-fire follows. A few years later, the US is planning its revenge, making heavy use of obsolescent equipment  without any suspect electronics.

The authors are professionally involved in the defence field, and it shows. This story is very tech-heavy and mostly quite convincing. A rather unusual touch is a 24-page Endnotes section which provides references for many of the ideas and proposed weapon systems. However, there are hazards in being too specific about such matters: much is made of the "million shots a minute" Metal Storm close-in defence gun.

Worth a read, if only to pick holes in!

autogun

From: autogun

12-Jul

Re. the quantity of weapon systems carried by Russian warships...

I recall reading long ago that this was due to a different approach to repairs and maintenance. In Western navies, major warships carry technical crew able to do a certain amount of running repairs, so expect to keep their weapons functional. Russia has fewer such engineers, so keeps them back at base. The considerable redundancy in the number of Russian weapon mountings is due to the expectation that if a system fails, it can be backed-up by another, until repairs can be carried out at the base. 

 I also recall that this was one of the defining capabilities of a cruiser-class warship in the WW2 Royal Navy. A cruiser was expected to be able to handle most of its own repairs and maintenance, so needed a lot more space for supplies, workshops etc. A destroyer was repaired at the base.

RovingPedant

From: RovingPedant

12-Jul

autogun said...

The US loses, with China seizing the Western Pacific including the Hawaiian Islands, and an uneasy cease-fire follows. A few years later, the US is planning its revenge, making heavy use of obsolescent equipment  without any suspect electronics.

Sounds like the Fighter Mafia lives on.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

13-Jul

autogun said:

I've re-read a rather unusual book: "Ghost Fleet: A Novel of the Next World War", by P.W .Singer and August Cole, published in 2015.

One of my absolutely favorites. Terrifically entertaining.

The sort of 'evil Richard Branson' space pirates scene gets me every time.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

13-Jul

HIMARS has achieved some good hits on ammo depots; but as analysis points out, like ATGMS they are not a single 'silver bullet' to end the war. Just a very useful tool:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-more-russian-ammo-dumps-blown-up

And thread on them in a bit more detail:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1546968367315111936.html

...

Meanwhile in crossover episode that I didnt expect, Russia is now going to be getting (rather than supplying) arms from Iran. Namely various drones and 'loitering munitions'.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/russia-getting-iranian-attack-drones-would-be-a-very-big-deal

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

13-Jul

I am actually surprised US will be supplying ATACMS as these are probably waste of launcher time and logistics, they can be intercepted by number of SAMs with relative ease like Tocka 

Still think mass introduction of Tocka U that were previously mustered out of use to DNR & LNR militias likely comes as a response to HIMARS

https://t.me/rosich_rus/14902

While iran is one of the world's most prolific users of drones and definitely makes much wider array of tactical drones and particulary strike drones that Russia never fielded in numbers. 

I would treat Iran drone news with extreme skepticism, its much more likely something published so Biden has some cover for whatever unsavory deal he will have to make to please MBS.

As long as Iran still has some access to European banks and markets so its not likely to jeopardise that , US on the other hand has no leverage left with all trump era sanctions in place.

Meanwhile Ukraine is kinda running out of bodies for its '1 million man army '

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/07/new-ukrainian-unicorn-million-man-army/

graylion

From: graylion

13-Jul

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

Still think mass introduction of Tocka U that were previously mustered out of use to DNR & LNR militias comes as a response to HIMARS

"mass"? According to Wikipedia RF has 24 launchers and the things have a CEP of 150m - good luck hitting a HiMARS with that ...

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