Military Guns and Ammunition

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Next Gen Stinger / MANPAD    General Military Discussion

Started 9-Apr by gatnerd; 5928 views.

From: schnuersi


JesseH1234 said:

I can't tell if that "emp" attachment is a joke or not.

EMP for anti drone purposes is not a joke. It has been proposed a long time ago and to my knowledge several different systems have been fielded allready.
The basic idea is to "shoot" a drone down without actually launching projectiles that might endager innocents. Its more of a civillian thing.

Drones also are the perfect target. They are lightweight and usually not made fith a metal structure and hull. So they are unshielded. Drones also rely on a data link by radio. They have a working antenne and receiver wenn in the air. These are highly vulurable to EMP. If the receiver gets damaged the drone will crash.
Its really more of a very intense jamming than what is commonly though of as EMP.


From: poliorcetes


If a passenger plane is protected against lighting bolts...


From: schnuersi


poliorcetes said:

If a passenger plane is protected against lighting bolts...

I don't understand what point you are trying to make.
What has that to do with directed EMPs for anti drone work?

In reply toRe: msg 22

From: gatnerd


According to Raytheon, Stinger will need to be redesigned a bit to have new components in order to restart production, and will take till 2023-24 before production begins to really hit its stride.

Whether this will result in a basically identical stinger with new little parts, or an improved stinger, remains to be seen. Also it calls into question whether we will see a new and improved manpad. 


From: Gr1ff1th


I too would like to see the next step in western MANPAD development, I wonder what technologies could be applied to future MANPADs to make them better, other than just replacing 1980s electronics with 2020s electronics 


From: Farmplinker


Honestly, 2020s electronics and production techniques are all Stingers really need. Less manual labor, more automated production.


From: RovingPedant


Imaging seekers and uncooled seekers would be the first two I’d look at. Granted that’s really only applying 4 decades of electronics development, but it would be a fairly big uplift in capability.

Other than that, there are incremental improvements in warheads, propellants and structure that might squeeze some more capability out of it.

Common launchers is an idea that’s been mooted for Stinger/Javelin and arguably implemented with Starstreak/Martlet. I don’t know if common missile would work without being a horrible compromise in either case.

Or you could keep the same capability but make the missile smaller and/or cheaper so they could be used against UAVs without breaking the bank or the infantry’s backs, or make it possible to integrate onto more platforms as a defensive system. Lockheed’s Miniature Hit to Kill system was an idea in that direction.

Going more off-the-the wall could see anti-drone-drones, a swarm of small systems that hang around the item to be defended and can be sent to physically intercept other flying objects, maybe going for nets or impact to avoid UXO issues.


From: roguetechie


The Navy's spike is also an interesting one.


From: RovingPedant


Yes! That spike is odd as I don’t think it has been accepted to service but keeps being involved in small and interesting tests. I wasn’t aware that it had been tested vs UAVs but if a missile has the kinematics to get to a UAV* then there’s no reason why not. There has been footage of Ukraine using ATGW, their Stugna, against incautious Russian Helicopters hovering.

*Let’s face it, most UAVs are hardly challenging in that regard


From: taschoene


A lot of good points there.

MHTK is really interesting, given the small size and active radar seeker.  It's even been proposed in a multi-shot pod suitable for man-portable use.

It might be interesting to see a family of systems approach -- a small interceptor like MHTK for killing Class 1-2 UAS loaded into a multi-round canister that would be interchangeable with a larger single-shot MANPADS that is more of a Stinger replacement for engaging helicopters, low-flying fixed-wing aircraft, and low-flying Class 3 UAS.  If it is interchangeable with Javelin, so much the better.  Your dedicated air defense launchers can be useful even in a lower air threat environment and your ATGM teams can become a  supplemental air defense threat if need be.

In terms of the direct Stinger replacement, adopting some sort of dual-mode seeker (IR/UV plus MHTK-style radar) seems like it would improve countermeasures resistance.  And then yes, anything you can to to improve kinematics out of the tube would be good.