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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Tracks vs Wheels   General Army topics

Started 26-May by graylion; 14910 views.
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

1-Jun

stancrist said:

"Light" is a relative term. It should go without saying that a modern light AFV needs appropriate protection and ergonomics.

You are right.
But very often you talk to people who do not understand this. They do not understand what appropiate protection and ergonomics are. How important they are and how they changed. Often you meet a "it worked for us back in the days it still has to work today if it doesn't its the fault of the users" mentality. Not only with laymans but with "professionals" as well.

Talking about recon:
When the Germany army still had armored recon as a branch there used to be mixed companies wich had roughly a 50:50 mix of Luchs wheeled recon vehicles, called light recon, and the Leopard MBTs, called heavy recon. So a mix of wheeled and tracked vehicles.
A modern take on this could be a combination of a wheeld AFV comparable to Jaguar with a tracked one like an upgunned Puma. The current MBTs are to heavy for this IMHO.

graylion

From: graylion

1-Jun

schnuersi said:

A modern take on this could be a combination of a wheeld AFV comparable to Jaguar with a tracked one like an upgunned Puma. The current MBTs are to heavy for this IMHO.

The Puma is yuuge though. A derivative without passenger compartment? And upgunned to what?

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

1-Jun

Refleks said:

IMO,  if the terrain and infrastructure supports ~70 ton MBTs and MBTs are being employed, dismounts should have MBT levels of protection regardless of their employment doctrine

A relevant meme popped up on reddit the other days:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namer

I tend to agree. A tank if killed loses 3-4 men; a IFV/APC lost could kill 10 men. 

So to me a very heavily armored IFV makes sense if its to accompany tanks of comparable weight. 

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

1-Jun

graylion said:

The Puma is yuuge though.

Well the EBCR Jaguar also is not exactly small. Same is true for the old Luchs recon vehicle.
I really doubt that a modern AFV will get much smaller. I also am not convinced that a small vehicle is really needed. As mentioned the German armored recon used Luchs and Leopard for decades. The Feneck which is sort of small has been deployed in Afganistan and its small size did not really help. It go spotted and hit.

graylion said:

A derivative without passenger compartment?

Maybe smaller compartment. Depending on turret mounted the ability to carry four dismounts. Maybe none. Depending on the details.

graylion said:

And upgunned to what?

At least a 35 mm AC. If the combination is Jaguar Puma the same weapons suite makes sense.
A somewhat larger AC can make sense depending on the exact role and expected opposition. 57 mm ACor a 76 mm with autoloader plus ATGMs if required would be pretty all round armament and allow recon by combat missions or seizing an opportunity.

graylion

From: graylion

1-Jun

schnuersi said:

57 mm ACor a 76 mm with autoloader plus ATGMs if required would be pretty all round armament and allow recon by combat missions or seizing an opportunity.

Are there any available? 

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

1-Jun

graylion said:

Are there any available?

Well sort off: Bofors builds 57 mm ACs and Denel builds the GT4 76 mm.

graylion

From: graylion

1-Jun

well, and there is OTO, who offer a RAM based on their 76mm ;)

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

9-Jun

stancrist said:

Not doing mechanized infantry exactly the same way as Germans or Russians doesn't make the US Army wrong, just different.

I found a nice video showing German mech Inf (Grenadiers) in training. A simulated firefight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENipa4fYOSc
Its focussing a lot on the machine gunners but its intresting footage.

TarheelYank

From: TarheelYank

9-Jun

Elbonia is also famous for waist deep mud year round and it's also their major export.

stancrist

From: stancrist

9-Jun

schnuersi said:

I found a nice video showing German mech Inf (Grenadiers) in training.

Nice.  First time I've seen an MG3 with the bipod attached so far back from the muzzle.

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