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Started 5-Jun by autogun; 1987 views.
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

8-Jun

stancrist said:

The people of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden are "traditionally" relaxed and laid back? Maybe in recent times. Not always.

Maybe going pillaging and buring abroad is the answer...
Not all Scandinavians have been Vikings. Not even 1000 years ago.

If by recent times you mean the last ~200 years I agree. But even this means roughly 10 generations. Which is a pretty long time for a people,nation and society. My point has been its not new in the sense of the last two or three generations.
At the same time if you look back far enough the people in all regions have behaved like savages from our point of view. Because this is exactly what they have been at this point. But I seriously doubt that a person from the same place and the same people from 1000 years ago, 500 years and today have much in common. Even the language will be so different they will most likely not be able to properly communicate.

autogun

From: autogun

8-Jun

schnuersi said:

Maybe going pillaging and buring abroad is the answer... Not all Scandinavians have been Vikings. Not even 1000 years ago.

I am reminded of the story about a group of Danes who were checking in to a hotel in Ireland. Another guest was surprised that the hotel receptionist seemed very cold to the Danes, and afterwards commented on it.The receptionist said "we don't like Danes. A gang of them attacked our town, raping and killing." Horrified, the guest asked when this happened. "900 years ago" was the reply.  The Irish are famous for having long memories for grievances...

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

8-Jun

I agree with Tony.

Size does matter. Not in the simple sense of how many square meters of territory but by population and population density and access to resources. Fertility rate also plays a major role. The agressive behaviour of a people or nation corelates with their reproductive rate. Simplified and in general terms.

The countries named Sweden, Finland,Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands are generally concidered small compared to Germany. Even though the first three are definetly larger territory wise. But the population of all of these nations is conciderable smaller. The population of Sweden and the Netherlands is comparable to the most populated state within Germany while the others have populations of a mid sized state or greater Berlin.
Only the population density of the Netherlands is higher compared to Germany. Significant actually. Yet the Dutch people are quite different in mentality to the Germans. There are of course similarities. Quite a lot actually but the devil is in the details. There are significant differences in approach to personal freedom for example. Same is true for the other nations mentioned. As a German you can easily blend in all of these countries. But if you have close contact with the locals or observe carefully you recognise the differences.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

8-Jun

autogun said:

The Irish are famous for having long memories for grievances...

Yes... I have experienced that as well. But from the other side so to speak. A couple of years ago a collegue of mine and me when working in Ireland ocationally got drinks for free because the Germans bombed London.
I keep telling myself that is was dark local humour. The trip was great we had a good time and lots of fun. Like a vacation interupted by some work.

autogun

From: autogun

8-Jun

schnuersi said:

I keep telling myself that is was dark local humour.

I'm sure it was......mostly.

Msg 8030.36 deleted
stancrist

From: stancrist

8-Jun

autogun said:

Depends how you define "small": for a start, population is at least as important as land area. 

I agree.

autogun said:

At the start of WW1, Austria-Hungary had a population of 50 million, Germany 67 mn, France 40 mn, UK 40 mn, Italy 35 mn...

Elsewhere in the world, the USA had 87 mn, Russia 150 mn, Japan 42 mn, the Ottoman Empire 22 mn, and China 420 mn...

Austria-Hungary was the second largest country in Europe, and not "small" by any sensible measure.

Your original statement was, "Big countries seem more likely [than smaller countries] to create various problems..."

From the population figures you provided:

Austria-Hungary - 50 mn

Germany - - - - - - - 67 mn

United States - - -  87 mn

Russia - - - - - - - - 150 mn

China - - - - - - - - - 420 mn

By population, Austria-Hungary clearly was much smaller than the big countries.

autogun said:

Similarly, WW2 was mainly fought between medium-sized countries, with the USA and Russia in the large category.

However, my statement was, "The Second World War was started by...three small countries."

From 1939 population figures:

Italy - - - - - - - - - - - 43 mn

Germany - - - - - - - 67 mn

Japan - - - - - - - - - - 72 mn

USA - - - - - - - - - - 131 mn

USSR - - - - - - - - - 169 mn

China - - - - - - - - - 468 mn

I stand by my original observation:  History does not support the notion that big countries are more likely to cause trouble than smaller countries.

autogun

From: autogun

8-Jun

stancrist said:

Your original statement was, "Big countries seem more likely [than smaller countries] to create various problems..." From the population figures you provided: Austria-Hungary - 50 mn Germany - - - - - - - 67 mn United States - - -  87 mn Russia - - - - - - - - 150 mn China - - - - - - - - - 420 mn By population, Austria-Hungary clearly was much smaller than the big countries. autogun said: Similarly, WW2 was mainly fought between medium-sized countries, with the USA and Russia in the large category. However, my statement was, "The Second World War was started by...three small countries." From 1939 population figures: Italy - - - - - - - - - - - 43 mn Germany - - - - - - - 67 mn Japan - - - - - - - - - - 72 mn USA - - - - - - - - - - 131 mn USSR - - - - - - - - - 169 mn China - - - - - - - - - 468 mn I stand by my original observation:  History does not support the notion that big countries are more likely to cause trouble than smaller countries.

No.

My original examples of "small countries" were:  Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden. To which Max added Finland. These are clearly a whole order of magnitude smaller than Italy, Japan, and Germany, which are medium-sized. 

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

8-Jun

stancrist said:

From 1939 population figures:

Germany - - - - - - - 67 mn

That number is off. By 1939 Germany had a population of allmost 80 million. Even without Austria the population was conciderable larger. Around 73 million.

stancrist

From: stancrist

8-Jun

schnuersi said:

By 1939 Germany had a population of allmost 80 million. Even without Austria the population was conciderable larger. Around 73 million.

Meh.  Makes no difference.  73 million is virtually the same as Japan's 72 million. 

Even using 80 million, Germany was still much smaller than the USA, USSR, China.

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