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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Rheinmetall Panther 2 KF51 Tank with 130mm   Army Guns 20+mm

Started 14-Jun by gatnerd; 3670 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

14-Jun

Rheinmetall just debuted the Panther KF51, widely being heralded as the Panther 2 on the internet:

https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/systems_and_products/vehicle_systems/armoured_tracked_vehicles/panther_kf51/index.php

Rheinmetall releases Panther KF51 Main Battle Tank

A new tank for a new era: Panther KF51 is Rheinmetall's new main battle tank, setting unprecedented standards in lethality, protection, survivability, reconn...

Another forum had these specs (will need subsequent confirmation)

And some preliminary info on the 130mm; reportedly 50% more energy/effect then the 120mm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_Rh-120#Rheinmetall_Rh-130_L/51

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

14-Jun

gatnerd said:

widely being heralded as the Panther 2 on the internet:

Even though its technically the Panther 3. :)

gatnerd said:

Another forum had these specs (will need subsequent confirmation)

THis is from the Rh homepage. It can be concidered confirmed.

Its important to keep a few things in mind to put the Panther into perspective. Its a pure industrial project. The German military has no stakes in it. Its a demonstrator to show what RH can currently offer. As such all configurations are optional. On the hompage Rh states the prototype is currently fitted with a new Rh RWS called Natter but any other can be fitted.
The Panther in essence is a upgraded Leopard hull with a significantly redesigned turret. So its actually a Leopard 2.5. This is the reason for the rather high weight. It also explains why it still uses a traditional crewed turret. Even though Rh states a crew in hull setup is also possible.

Most likely Rh wants to show that for a Leopard 3 project by the German military no international colaboration is needed. They are positioning themself should MGCS fail. Which is what it currently looks like. Should Rh manage to actually find customers MGCS will get even more unlikely.

EmericD

From: EmericD

14-Jun

schnuersi said:

Most likely Rh wants to show that for a Leopard 3 project by the German military no international colaboration is needed. They are positioning themself should MGCS fail. Which is what it currently looks like. Should Rh manage to actually find customers MGCS will get even more unlikely.

They are doing much more than that, they are actively trying to make MGCS fail, with the help of people who didn't like the merge of KMW and Nexter.

And the announcement of the German government to buy F-35 is a signal that SCAF will probably fail also.

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

14-Jun

EmericD said:

They are doing much more than that, they are actively trying to make MGCS fail, with the help of people who didn't like the merge of KMW and Nexter.

According to the people at KMW I talked to Nexter and the french MoD are doing a fine job of making it fail by themself.

EmericD said:

And the announcement of the German government to buy F-35 is a signal that SCAF will probably fail also.

My knowledge of aircraft projects is limited but as far as I know F-35 and FCAS are two completly different things. FCAS is supposed to replace the Typhoon. F-35 is replacing Tornado. Which has to be replaced quickly. FCAS is sheduled for the '40s.

In the past multi national programs rarely really succeed. It got worse in the last decades. Even Tiger, one of the most high profile programs, is a hot mess. Most likely its best when the progams are national, maybe with some junior partners, and after they are finished they are sold on the market. This way everybody can decide what fits their needs best.

graylion

From: graylion

14-Jun

schnuersi said:

Most likely its best when the progams are national, maybe with some junior partners, and after they are finished they are sold on the market. This way everybody can decide what fits their needs best.

Or just industry. like AW149, which currently is my favourite chopper in that weight class.

stancrist

From: stancrist

14-Jun

gatnerd said:

Rheinmetall just debuted the Panther KF51...

With a .50 Browning coax.  Truly amazing that a WWI machine gun is still used in a 21st century tank.

New KF-51 Panther, A Radically New MBT with 130mm cannon and loitering ammunition - YouTube

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

14-Jun

stancrist said:

ruly amazing that a WWI machine gun is still used in a 21st century tank

In reply toRe: msg 7
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

14-Jun

In related news, another Magnum Tank concept was debuted, this with a 140mm cannon:

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2022/06/14/european-knds-tank-may-get-140mm-ascalon-gun-with-13mj-pressure/

-Nexter 140mm ASCALON cannon 

-The Inevitable M2 .50 as COAX to 140mm

-Nexter ARX30 30x113mm autocannon (Airburst?) on a RWS

-7.62 MG coax with commanders sight

In reply toRe: msg 8
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

14-Jun

More info on the KF51 and the related Procurement Politics as pertains to the MGCS:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/new-kf51-panther-tank-packs-big-130mm-gun-aimed-at-aging-leopard-2

graylion

From: graylion

15-Jun

I seriously doubt that Rheinmetall is using Browning M2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_RMG.50

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