Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Rheinmetall Panther 2 KF51 Tank with 130mm   Army Guns 20+mm

Started 14/6/22 by gatnerd; 46548 views.
In reply toRe: msg 419

From: gatnerd


Seems like we may see Germany go for Leopard A8 or perhaps the Panther 2, as opposed to continuing with MGCS.

The development of a Franco-German heavy combat tank, called to replace the Leclerc and the Leopard 2, is, until now, the “visible” part of the MGCS. And to carry it out, Paris and Berlin favored the rapprochement between Nexter and Krauss-Maffei Wegmann [KMW], the two entities having since merged under the KNDS brand.

However, the German government imposed a third actor, namely Rheinmetall. And that could only complicate the 50-50 division of tasks between the two parties…

“We are going through a difficult situation with the MGCS. KDNS was born from the merger of Nexter and KMW to bring together the German and French defense industries. Our technology partner Rheinmetall joined us later, at the request of the federal government. Germany has thus embarked on a love triangle which was not initially planned”, thus recently lamented Ralf Ketzel, the head of the German division of KNDS.


Only the question is whether the MGCS will necessarily involve the development of a new generation combat tank. France wants this, in order to be able to replace the Leclercs by 2035. So much so that, during the debates on the Military Programming Law [LPM] 2024-30, a Senate amendment asking for the development of a demonstrator of Leclerc Mk3, was not adopted, at the request of the minister.

Across the Rhine, the music is quite different. Indeed, some manufacturers and elected officials do not see the need to finance the development of a new tank immediately since there already exists, with the Leopard 2A8, the latest evolution of the Leopard 2. And several countries have expressed their intention to obtain it… starting with Germany.

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From: stancrist


AbramsX = M1E3 ?

The M1E3: What has the Army actually said?

I dig into the press release and make some observations on what the release says, what it doesn't say, and more importantly, some food for thought as to the ...


From: renatohm


That's what I thought, but let's not get too excited about it - it's the US Army, after all, so anything may come from this.

Or, maybe even more accurately - nothing at all.


From: smg762


what would happen if you tried to applly squeezebore to a .22 intermediate round. for example reducing the caliber to .20 or .18

would it be possible to get a ballistic benefit without deforming the accuracy


From: smg762


in terms of the modern battleship (not aircraft carrier), what's the typical loadout. is it basically a 70-100mm gun and loads of missiles?

what about putting a 150mm artillery on a ship, could that not bombard land positions from ashore?


From: smg762


on the subject of 16 inch guns, didn't the germans consider some large tanks with naval cannons attached? like the ratte P1000

also, could you match the penetration of a finned round, by using a relally large HEAT round, say, 150mm


From: farmplinker2


Cruisers and destroyers generally use a 127mm-130mm gun or two, and usually over 60 missiles.


From: autogun


smg762 said:

what would happen if you tried to applly squeezebore to a .22 intermediate round. for example reducing the caliber to .20 or .18

That's the way that squeezebores were first developed - for small arms. They did not prove to be successful.


From: schnuersi


gatnerd said:

Seems like we may see Germany go for Leopard A8 or perhaps the Panther 2, as opposed to continuing with MGCS.

The Leo2 A8 allready is in late stages of the procurement process. Not only for Germany but several European users as well. Currently it seems large parts of the Leo2 fleet of NATO countries will be brought to A8 standard.

This has nothing to do with MGCS though. The Leo2 A8 is an interim sollution until a replacement is fielded. In this regard chances are we will see an A9 and A10 in the next years since it will take quite some time until a Leo2 replacement will show up.

MGCS is under pressure currently. But ultimately it will be a political decision to either continue this programme or to abandon it. So its pretty safe to say the result will be completly random and can not be predicted with any degree of reliability. Especially concidering the time frame of over a decade.