gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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Australian Small Arms Modernization   Small Arms <20mm

Started 1-Oct by gatnerd; 6014 views.
stancrist

From: stancrist

16-Oct

gatnerd said:

AU has adopted the MCX in .300 BLK as a PDW. This choice is quite unusual for several reasons:

-Australia fields the F90, of which the 16" barrel version is a very short 26.5", seeming to make any length savings of even a short barrel MCX seem pretty minor unless the stock is folded. 

-Australia fields 5.56, and is interested in pursuing 6.8. In either case, introducing a new caliber - 300 blk - seems unusual, and is more something we might expect in a SF unit than a large military due to logistical concerns.

Some more thoughts on this subject:

1.  The acquisition of the (9-inch barrel) SIG MCX Virtus in .300 BLK is reportedly as a "PDW" for Australian special forces only, not as a general issue PDW.

"One of the new weapons is what the ADF calls a Personal Defence Weapon System to replace the long-serving Heckler and Koch MP5 sub-machine gun.

What was chosen was the SIG Sauer MCX in .300 Blackout calibre, a special forces preference as it is more lethal than 9mm and well suited to use with suppressors."

Details around NIOA's Land 159 offer - Australian Defence Magazine

2.  However, adoption of the MCX for SF could conceivably result in future fielding as a PDW for the regular army.

3.  Also, it may signal plans to replace the current 5.56x45 bullpup with a 6.8x51 rifle of conventional configuration.

"Notably, the MCX is a close relative of the SIG MCX Spear, the rifle chosen by the US as its next generation infantry rifle."  ~ Australian Defence Magazine (see link above)

  • Edited 16 October 2022 22:29  by  stancrist
DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

18-Oct

As an annendum, the H&K MP5 is also used by RAAF Airfield Defence Guard (RAF Regt equivalent) and Security Police squadrons. MPs will also likely use he MPX in the CPP role.

stancrist

From: stancrist

18-Oct

Thanks, David.  The ADF website mentioned only that Australian special forces use the MP5. 

But it does seem logical that other users of the MP5 might also have it replaced by the MCX.

In reply toRe: msg 45
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

23-Oct

In terms of Squadcopter / Platoon copter, this is a fascinating video from Ukraine of a quadcopter providing ultra close CAS in coordination with a Squad that is conducting a CQB trench assault on the Russians.

It shows the potential of an armed squadcopter quite well.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/OFFICIAL-Russo-Ukrainian-War-/5-2499714/?page=2880#i101059926

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Copying this posters analysis:

stancrist

From: stancrist

23-Oct

gatnerd said:

It shows the potential of an armed squadcopter quite well.

That seems like an unwarranted conclusion.  I'd say that what it shows is the potential of an armed quadcopter at platoon or company, not squad.

The poster got it wrong with this point:  It is not a "squad level UAV" if it is being flown by an operator 500-1000 meters to the rear at company HQ.

  • Edited 23 October 2022 3:25  by  stancrist
stancrist

From: stancrist

1-Nov

stancrist said:

With what little information we currently have, it is uncertain which ZU model the ADF chose to adopt.

Okay, I can now say with some certainty which ZU knife the ADF chose to adopt, and it looks like it was neither the Shrapnel nor the Reaper.

I came across an official ADF photo of the "training blade" which -- except for color -- is identical to the new Hand-to-Hand Fighting System.

It appears to be a new design based primarily on the ZU Nomad Mk2, but incorporating a couple of features from the Shrapnel and Reaper.

The blade has the same length and shape as the Nomad Mk2, but has the narrow blood groove of the Shrapnel and the guard of the Reaper.

Training Blade  (ADF photo)

Nomad Mk2

Shrapnel

Reaper

----------------------------------------

Amusing post from Australian army has a new knife. | BladeForums.com:

"Complete waste of taxpayers money IMO. This is about retired generals and politicians in bed with the prime vendors(some individuals are even married to each other lol) loading up on new gear for their own retirement funds. A fighting dagger adding even more weight to our overly encumbered western soldiers during battle or should I say '3rd world policing and resource extration operations'. And likely the reason will be the 'rising threat of Russia and China', two nuclear capable powers vastly too large for Australia to deal with, let alone get into CQB with an undersized fantasy blade!

Good heavens. I was the army and then worked in the middle east for several years as a contractor and the amount of times I needed a 4" fighting dagger were non existant. Even during the height of operations in Afghanistan ,Australia was only losing 4 people a year and I can guarantee none were in hand to hand combat. heres a better idea, keep the old standard issue M16 bayonet costing 'zero dollars' extra..."

  • Edited 01 November 2022 2:45  by  stancrist
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

1-Nov

Great find Stan. I collect and also design knives (got my first swiss army when I was 5) so I always find these types of knife choices interesting. 

Australia to my knowledge doesn't have many knife companies, so going with ZU makes sense - might as well buy Australian if they can. 

The design itself, I'm ambivalent about. 

Pros:

-Cool knife ads espirit de corps / warrior vibes

-Stabby 

-Very secure if finger loop engaged 

-Pretty compact

-Likely indestructible 

-Similar to Benchmade SOCP dagger, which is reportedly somewhat popular with US forces 

Cons:

-Zero utility 

-Handle is bare metal, so prone to being cold/hot and slippery 

-lack of guard makes it questionable if finger loop not engaged 

-Cant be used as bayonet 

-blade fairly short for stabbing, or for using as mine probe

-Blade steel not stainless 

...

For a compact stabbing implement, I would have gone with a Push Dagger. Maximum blade length per oal, and simplifies training as its a punching motion.

stancrist

From: stancrist

2-Nov

gatnerd said:

Great find Stan. I collect and also design knives (got my first swiss army when I was 5) so I always find these types of knife choices interesting. 

Australia to my knowledge doesn't have many knife companies, so going with ZU makes sense - might as well buy Australian if they can.

Certainly.  But this choice seems irrational.  Virtually no soldiers will ever use one for its design purpose.

Something like the knife shown below makes vastly more sense for general issue to military personnel.

The US Military's New Combat Utility Knife | Review & Giveaway | Tactical Rifleman

In this week's video, I wanted to talk about a new pocket utility knife that just got added to the US DLA (US Defense Logistics Agency) supply system. No, it...

If the ADF is concerned about equipping line infantry for CQB, a pistol makes a much more logical choice.

Australian Special Operations Tool Review

A review of the ASOT in terms of its portability, versatility and effectiveness as a Close Quarter fighting weapon for Law Enforcement and Military personnel.

Upon watching the guy in the video above, I had three thoughts about this style of "fighting" knife:

1.  It seems intended to sadistically inflict massive wounding rather than quick incapacitation/death.

2.  If I attempted to flail around wildly and rapidly with both arms like he did, I'd probably cut myself.  scream

3.  All of those fancy movements just automatically caused me to think of this iconic movie moment:

  • Edited 02 November 2022 20:29  by  stancrist
roguetechie

From: roguetechie

3-Nov

The chicoms actually have some attack drones that absolutely make sense at squad level.

They're quite literally flying hand grenades and quite small, could be made smaller, and will pretty easily eventually get to a point where you can make two fit in a single rifle mag pouch 

stancrist

From: stancrist

3-Nov

roguetechie said:

The chicoms actually have some attack drones that absolutely make sense at squad level.

That may be, but I did not say there are no drones that make sense at squad level.  I said only that the video in Msg 46 does not show the potential of a "squadcopter" because the drone is not being operated by a member of the squad.

roguetechie said:

They're quite literally flying hand grenades and quite small, could be made smaller, and will pretty easily eventually get to a point where you can make two fit in a single rifle mag pouch

Got link?  I just did a brief search, but found nada.

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