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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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New rifle for British Rangers; rumor of wider L85 replacement   Small Arms <20mm

Started 25-Oct by gatnerd; 1496 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25-Oct

Surprised we've let this story fall through the cracks here.

Britain is looking at a contact for up to 10,000 'armalite rifles' aka AR15 style rifles:

https://soldiersystems.net/2021/08/07/british-army-seeks-new-special-operations-brigade-rifle/

https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/017725-2021?origin=SearchResults&p=1&fbclid=IwAR3qYgWiKL25BlgSavB_u9bSsF8DR7KJmsnmpc7pGAE3zxY0p3H8GtvU3Ag

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-army-rangers-looking-for-new-rifle/

We are starting to see rifle designs that have been submitted:

https://soldiersystems.net/2022/10/24/sneak-peek-sig-sauers-hunter-project-rifle-for-uk-ranger-regiment/

However the most interesting of all is that GLOCK has submitted a rifle, for the first time ever. 

https://www.spartanat.com/2022/10/die-neue-glock-ein-ar15/

While some may point that this is a further decline of the fate of the bullpup, it's notable that the contract specified 'Armalite' style rifle, which also shuts down the hopes for a '3rd Gen' conventional rifle like the SCAR/BREN/HK433. 

Overall it's kinda boring to see more AR15s, but they have really taken over the world, to the point that now even Glock is making one. 

EmericD

From: EmericD

25-Oct

gatnerd said:

While some may point that this is a further decline of the fate of the bullpup, it's notable that the contract specified 'Armalite' style rifle, which also shuts down the hopes for a '3rd Gen' conventional rifle like the SCAR/BREN/HK433.

The SCAR / BREN & HK433 can't really hide their lineage with the Armalite AR-18, so they could claim that they tick the "Armalite rifle" box.

taschoene

From: taschoene

25-Oct

EmericD said:

The SCAR / BREN & HK433 can't really hide their lineage with the Armalite AR-18, so they could claim that they tick the "Armalite rifle" box.

The solicitation defines a AR type rifle as "gas operated with a rotating, locking bolt."  So yeah, anything AR18-derived suits the bill.  The only actual rifles this seems to exclude would be HK/CETME-style roller-locked guns, which aren't exactly common anymore.  Is anyone even offering a modern assault rifle that isn't gas operated and using a rotating bolt anymore?

stancrist

From: stancrist

25-Oct

taschoene said:

       EmericD said: The SCAR / BREN & HK433 can't really hide their lineage with the Armalite AR-18, so they could claim that they tick the "Armalite rifle" box.

The solicitation defines a AR type rifle as "gas operated with a rotating, locking bolt."  So yeah, anything AR18-derived suits the bill.

LOL.  Good luck with that.  SAS - Weapons - C8 Carbine (eliteukforces.info)

autogun

From: autogun

25-Oct

An interesting point is the suggestion that this might eventually replace the L85 as the BA's standard infantry rifle. This would seem to exclude the possibility of the BA adopting NGSW (or similar). Perhaps they've given up on that?

I am reminded of a popular song from my youth (1965), by the Kinks:

"So tired, tired of waiting, tired of waiting for you....."

stancrist

From: stancrist

25-Oct

autogun said:

An interesting point is the suggestion that this might eventually replace the L85 as the BA's standard infantry rifle. This would seem to exclude the possibility of the BA adopting NGSW (or similar). Perhaps they've given up on that?

1.  May replace does not equal will replace.

2.  It's unverified rumor, not confirmed fact.

---------------------------------------------------------------

P.S.  The tender notice stated that delivery of trial weapons was required by December 2021 or March 2022 at the latest.

But, the Defence Journal article indicates the delivery date has apparently been postponed until the end of August 2022.

At that rate, by the time test and evaluation is done, NGSW might be good to go.  And XM5 is an Armalite Rifle Platform...  stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye

  • Edited 25 October 2022 16:43  by  stancrist
taschoene

From: taschoene

25-Oct

stancrist said:

LOL.  Good luck with that.

Well, sure.  But the solicitation is terribly drafted by people who don't understand guns in the slightest.  It's like the looked up AR-15 Style Rifle on Wikipedia and copied the description of the mechanism almost verbatim.  Sure we know they British Army wants the C8 or something very much like it.  But the solicitation legally speaking allows bidders to offer almost any modern non-bullpup assault rifle.

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25-Oct

taschoene said:

But the solicitation legally speaking allows bidders to offer almost any modern non-bullpup assault rifle

Yeah I just re-read it. While their intent is clear, the language basically allows any rotating bolt conventional rifle with a rotating safety whose upper and lower are held together with pins. 

....

Overall though I think this is another example of the pretty dire fate of the crop of new '3rd Gen' Assault rifles of the SCAR/HK433/BREN/ARX family. 

I'm hard pressed to think of a country who has adopted them (in 5.56) unless the gun is made in their own country. IE Belgium issues a SCAR, CZ issues a Bren, Italy the ARX - but I cant think of any foreign adoptions for any. 

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

25-Oct

autogun said:

An interesting point is the suggestion that this might eventually replace the L85 as the BA's standard infantry rifle. This would seem to exclude the possibility of the BA adopting NGSW (or similar). Perhaps they've given up on that?

Yes that is notable. Any number of reasons occurs to me:

-Tired of waiting / current deteriorating security environment means they want something ASAP. 

-Want to keep utilizing their warstocks of 5.56, as the Ukraine war has shown the importance of having a shit ton of ammo on hand. 

-Saw that in Ukraine, 5.45/5.56 + Hand Grenades have proven plenty adequate for mopping up infantry who have survived artillery strikes 

-May want to use 6.8 in the future, but as a Squad DMR/LMG, similar to the current 5.56+7.62 mix the Brits/NZ/French are doing now. (in my view, the best solution)

stancrist

From: stancrist

25-Oct

gatnerd said:

Yes that is notable.

It would be notable if true.  However, all that was reported is an unsubstantiated rumor that "may well" be false.

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