gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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New rifle for British Rangers; rumor of wider L85 replacement   Small Arms <20mm

Started 25/10/22 by gatnerd; 9624 views.
In reply toRe: msg 39
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

7-Sep

Knights KS-1 is confirmed as winner.

Overall it will be a top of the line AR + 1-10X scope + backup RDS + suppressor, which is about as good as it gets in terms of any countries mil/sf issue rifle at the moment. 

https://soldiersystems.net/2023/09/07/edgar-brothers-awarded-contract-to-supply-alternative-individual-weapon-system-to-uk-mod/

There's some handwringing over it, mostly boiling down to it not being piston, and it not being made in the UK.

https://twitter.com/TotherChris/status/1625920121955811352

  • Edited 07 September 2023 5:58  by  gatnerd
EmericD

From: EmericD

7-Sep

gatnerd said:

There's some handwringing over it, mostly boiling down to it not being piston, and it not being made in the UK.

~9,000 £ per system does not seems very competitive...

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

7-Sep

I believe thats the whole setup, rifle + optics + suppressor + stocking stuffers.

The 1-10x optic alone retails for $2,500. 

That said, Knights makes probably the worlds most expensive military AR15 with it's SR-16 family ($2700-2900 for civilian semi auto at retail), and the price is definitely inflated relative to its competitors. 

  • Edited 07 September 2023 6:37  by  gatnerd
EmericD

From: EmericD

7-Sep

gatnerd said:

I believe thats the whole setup, rifle + optics + suppressor + stocking stuffers.

Yes, and also with the BFA & simunition firing kit (even if there probably not one kit per rifle).

But overall, that's the cost of a good DMR system, so I hope the system could provide DMR capability!

It seems to be a global trend among specops community, to give DMR capability to every operator, even the "door kickers".

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

7-Sep

EmericD said:

It seems to be a global trend among specops community, to give DMR capability to every operator, even the "door kickers"

Makes sense to me; the 1-10x+RDS still allows CQB ability for the door kickers, and given the training and # of rounds SF soldiers fire, I imagine most SF door kickers are equal or better shots then a regular army designated marksman. 

In terms of accuracy, not sure if the KAC is DMR grade. I've never fired one, but I've read they are considered 2moa 'combat accurate' rifles. Their glowing rep in the US seems to stem mostly from their reliability (enhanced bolt design + intermediate gas system). 

...

Rifle cost is interesting to consider in light of other weapons. 9k pounds is a lot of money, and yet firing 1x NLAW is 40k pounds, whereas these rifles will last for a decade of use or more. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

7-Sep

gatnerd said:

Knights KS-1 is confirmed as winner. Overall it will be a top of the line AR + 1-10X scope + backup RDS + suppressor, which is about as good as it gets in terms of any countries mil/sf issue rifle at the moment.

And most importantly, it will improve Social Value in the UK.  smile

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

7-Sep

That exact optic can be had under branding of your choosing for about 800$  .

I am just now working with a friend on a new optic for our MOD DMR requirement (2-12x42 or 2.5-15x42 depending on archihecture we chose in the end) , while not a big deal in comparison to this its big enough to finance a new brand and optic development , optic that is custom constructed to our specs but essentialy internals are off the shelf offerings by LOW japan (same as Vortex,NF , Revic, Trijicon ,Maven ,Delta Optical and plethora of other brands). We are still weaveing about having an internal electronic level and or ballistic computer ocular that can tbe added to same core optic. 

farmplinker2

From: farmplinker2

8-Sep

It doesn't help that you have to get on a waiting list for Knight's products.

EmericD

From: EmericD

8-Sep

gatnerd said:

Rifle cost is interesting to consider in light of other weapons. 9k pounds is a lot of money, and yet firing 1x NLAW is 40k pounds, whereas these rifles will last for a decade of use or more.

Well, with a NLAW you could expect to defeat high value targets that will be immune to decades of small arms fire.

A better comparision would be "is this 9k£ system really 2x or 3x better than an (insert your favorite rifle) with a suppresor and an M68 or an ACOG (a sub 3k system)"?

gatnerd

From: gatnerd

8-Sep

EmericD said:

A better comparision would be "is this 9k£ system really 2x or 3x better than an (insert your favorite rifle) with a suppresor and an M68 or an ACOG (a sub 3k system)"?

I'd be surprised if any rifle/optic setup is achieving 2-3x improvement over the STG44 with irons. 

It is a pretty sweet setup though. And for a small number of rifles for elite troops, why not splurge a little. 

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