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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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replacing the A10 warthog   General Military Discussion

Started 27-Jan by smg762; 976 views.
smg762

From: smg762

27-Jan

I had an idea for a vehicle to replace the ageing A10 warthog.  Its a helicopter but ideally also has jets or oscillating propellers so it can go fast

much like the A10, the main armament is a cannon.  The gun would be quite unusual. It's about 35mm but the rounds are very small and case telescoped. The reason for the large caliber is to give more energy to the APDS rounds.

The gun is dual feed. The first ammo type is a very slow, low speed HE round. The bullet is really huge, to carry a lot of payload. It needs hardly any powder behind the bullet.
The second ammo is a CT, APDS round which shoots a 15mm bullet at about 3800FPS. The bullet is long, with an HE payload.

any thoughts on the practicality of this weapon?

In reply toRe: msg 1
Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

27-Jan

A10 was barely survivable when designed, it's not survivable today. No one is going to be doing strafing runs any time soon. 

Definitely nothin with oversized gun for groundwork.

A10 replacement is a stealthy drone dropping guided munitions most likely from a stand of distance.

graylion

From: graylion

27-Jan

Mr. T (MrT4) said:

A10 replacement is a stealthy drone dropping guided munitions most likely from a stand of distance.

or F-16, or F-35 or ...

The A-10 is a fantastic example of how myths work.

Mr. T (MrT4)

From: Mr. T (MrT4)

27-Jan

That is not the case A10 as a gun platform can only be used against guys in flip-flops that can't shoot back, in an environment like Ukraine with thousands of MANPADS its only mode of survival is using stand off weapons. As precision weapons proliferate and get cheaper , that 30mm gun becomes dead weight.

A10 nap of the earth flight profile is 'stealth tactics' without stealth technology these days obsolete if you can have good stealth technology.

In reply toRe: msg 1
schnuersi

From: schnuersi

27-Jan

smg762 said:

I had an idea for a vehicle to replace the ageing A10 warthog.

Replace it to do what?

The original role? Low altitude CAS in a highly contested airspace... as the others mentioned allready: forget about that.

The A10 actually performed well in a different role from the one it originally has been designed for. Its actually great for CAS and general ground attack, eg the classical light bomber role, in uncontested airspace. Because it can carry a substancial amount of ammo, has a long loiter time and is rather cheap and easy to maintain.
The A-29 Super Tucano would have been the replacement in this role.

The A10s gun is mostly useless nowadays. It has never really been used in the anti armour role really. Mostly it has been used to fire HE it soft targets. You don't need such a monstrous gun for this.

graylion

From: graylion

27-Jan

yes, but the gun is what created the myth

schnuersi

From: schnuersi

27-Jan

graylion said:

yes, but the gun is what created the myth

True.
It seems to be a rather curious case of collective over compensation. ;)

graylion

From: graylion

27-Jan

schnuersi said:

It seems to be a rather curious case of collective over compensation. ;)

LMAO

In reply toRe: msg 1
EmericD

From: EmericD

27-Jan

smg762 said:

The reason for the large caliber is to give more energy to the APDS rounds.

The project should stop here!

Discarding sabot and airborne vehicle don't really mix well.

In reply toRe: msg 9
Refleks

From: Refleks

27-Jan

I'd like to keep it around. There will still be plenty of conflicts where they can be employed. 

Replace the 30mm with 40mm supershot to use the existing gun and ammunition feed system, mount a fixed inductive fuze setter ahead of the firing barrel and use 3P ammunition.  Add a MMW radar for continuous ranging information to feed the computer during the attack run.  Now with the flip of a switch you can go from near surface burst, impact SQ, or delay or a mixture.  

If you wanted to be particularly evil you could also redesign it around a 35x228 dual feed revolver cannon and throw AHEAD rounds into the mix to "dial-a-beaten zone" in addition to programmable HE

Engine upgrades are long overdue, would like to see the second seater model return for FAC role.

If we wanna get silly we could always marinize it, give it folding wings, retractable probe for refueling, and offer it to the USMC for use on the gators while the F-35 flies top cover. I know the Marines will enjoy the morale boost.

On the subject of light attack though, I do think there's a niche for an upgraded version of the OV-10 NOGS.

I would also like to see a Saab 1642 "mini A-10" for export to compete with Tucano and the like. Not for the US but for other countries. The engines would be based on modern bizjet engines for ease of maintenance, and use the same long barreled 20mm and ammunition drum and feed system the Phalanx uses to simplify development.

  • Edited 27 January 2023 13:24  by  Refleks
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