https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0EMlqdE8kE

YouTube

Two vehicle Patria NEMO platoon firepower, Lohtaja Firing Range

Patria NEMO is a turreted, remote-controlled and fully stabilized 120 mm mortar system for the needs of modern warfare and crisis management, which calls for...

We need to see about mounting that turret on the AMPV.

Flashy video but some of the marketing claims are unlikely to be used in practice , the multiple  round near simultaneus impact is most impressive, till you put some taught into it , it can only happen at short range as rounds are lobed at different trajectories and charges to stagger the impacts . And jets just say a armored mortar carrier entering within sub 1000m of the enemy is somewhat suicidal especialy in line of sight like they demonstrate.

Having personally shot and overnighted on this exact range many times,i can tell you most of the firing in that video is happening at sub 1km as for any longer fires they typically fire onto floating targets out at sea. As there is not enough real estate  for more . The longest i ever shot there was 1450m ,but that is a diagonal across the range only allowed for rifle shooting. 

YouTube

Two vehicle Patria NEMO platoon in action, Lohtaja Firing Range

Patria NEMO is a turreted, remote-controlled and fully stabilized 120 mm mortar system for the needs of modern warfare and crisis management, which calls for...

Most unusual version of the Nemo

YouTube

Introducing Patria Nemo Container - a heavy mortar system with high mobility

Patria Nemo Container includes all the equipment required by a mortar unit in a single package. The Nemo Container is delivered with everything that a mortar...

Apparently 105's are still useful / valued in Ukraine:

https://twitter.com/thinkdefence/status/1700953581765976121

Wonderfully detailed article on whether 105mm's should/can be replaced, and options:

https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2022/02/the-l118-105mm-light-gun-replacement/

The discussion of standardizing on 120mm Mortars and ditching 105mm is especially interesting.

I just love Think Defense, his articles are great.

Then again, we're always risking the "prepare for the last war syndrome" all over again.

Towed 105 howitzer is indeed useful when compared to towed 120 mortar, but how do they compare when self-propelled, modern 120 mortars, etc, etc?

Ukraine indeed proves and disproves many of the debates had here and elsewhere, but what conclusions we'll get from the data?

renatohm said:

Ukraine indeed proves and disproves many of the debates had here and elsewhere, but what conclusions we'll get from the data?

The war in Ukraine is a perfect example of "what is happening when you lose initiative". Like during WWI, both sides dig trenches and you start a war of attrition with artillery as the dominant factor.

It's exactly the kind of war that Western powers should not fight because we simply don't have the "disposable" manpower needed, and why we invested so heavily into Airpower (in order to keep initiative and avoid a war of attrition).

Aside from US AF, european airpower is negligible. We have seen in Libya

Which is all the more gruesome when one thinks that Ukraine could already be using Western aircraft.

In any case, while a few dozen F-16 or whatever surely work much better than zero, Ukraine would need a few hundreds F-16, duly supported by AEW and other assets, to be a real challenge for Russian air power - and unless, God forbid, this becomes the new 30 Year War, I don't see it happening.

F16 in any quantity has lots of obstacles to overcome, form maintenance to basing to pilots, decrepit Soviet-era runways that are no problem for Sukhois and Migs might not be that useable to F16 , AD coverage of the battlefield is such that F16 would be forced to operate much the same as Su24 do , nap of the earth till standoff release point. Nothing that could change much on the battlefield. Himars is the F16 without all the logistics problems. From what we can discern they are training something like 6 pilots for F16. And deliveries will be in a piecemeal fashion.

Western AF operated something line 1050 or so aircraft during the Kosovo campaign against limited 60's era SAM , and a squadron-strong airforce on much smaller territory than the battlefield in Ukraine. In Gulf war numbers of aircraft involved were over 2300 , all European forces combined could maybe muster 400 today and given much of the fleet in non operational condtion likely even less and ammo would last less than a week.

Well, a bunch of very old Su-24 just sunk a Ropucha and a Kilo, I can't see how the F-16 would perform worse than that.