gatnerd

Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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High Performance 9mm experiments    Ammunition <20mm

Started 8-Nov by gatnerd; 831 views.
gatnerd

From: gatnerd

8-Nov

Came across an impressive reloading project on Arfcom, which shows what a high performance 9mm PDW round might be capable of.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/The-quest-for-600-ft-lbs-9mm/42-547833/

Projectiles are 68gr copper solids, which is roughly analogous to what we might expect the weight to be for potential light AP / lead fee PDW projectiles. 

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/The-quest-for-600-ft-lbs-9mm/42-547833/

68gr projectile + 10.5gr powder + Shell Shock cases = 2016fps from a 4.61" barrel

Recoil is described as quite controllable, as the combination of light bullet + lots of powder worls very well with a pistol compensator. 

stancrist

From: stancrist

8-Nov

gatnerd said:

Projectiles are 68gr copper solids, which is roughly analogous to what we might expect the weight to be for potential light AP / lead fee PDW projectiles

I think 68 gr is probably quite a bit lighter than a "light AP/lead free" 9mm PDW bullet.

Federal's 9mm EBR round had a steel penetrator/lead base bullet that weighed 103 gr.

FWIW, MagSafe was getting 2000+ fps with ultralightweight (50-60gr) bullet loads three decades ago.

farmplinker2

From: farmplinker2

8-Nov

These out of a 10.5" .350 Legend.

mpopenker

From: mpopenker

8-Nov

So these guys basically cosplaying a Russian 7N31 load (4.2 gram AP bullet at 560-590 m/s)

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/special-weapons-and-ammunitions/submachine-guns/7n31/


Really impressive at short range, but looses energy with range rather fast

EmericD

From: EmericD

8-Nov

gatnerd said:

Came across an impressive reloading project on Arfcom, which shows what a high performance 9mm PDW round might be capable of.

You can launch a 90 grs bullet at ~600 m/s (for more than 1000 J of muzzle energy) with a 9x19 mm without exceeding normal pressure, in a PCC. 

The old SFM THV was already driving a 2.8 g bullet above 2000 fps from service pistol, and above 2400 fps from a PDW. Velocity retention was not really a concern and those ammo would not be a good choice for military application.

The same guy who developped the THV rounds also developped a true AP round (the ALIA) with a steel core and an aluminium jacket.

graylion

From: graylion

8-Nov

mpopenker said:

Really impressive at short range, but looses energy with range rather fast

Yeah. We are shooting for a 100m engagement range with PDW, and I have my doubts in that regard. I think you'll need smaller calibre and better shaped bullets for that. 

smg762

From: smg762

9-Nov

emeric i had a quwestion. If you wanted to make a PDW round thats interchangeable with 9mm, and can share the same clips, could you make the round wider than 9mm, but the same OAL. for example a 30mm OAL and a case width of about 11mm.

would this round feed well from glock mags or is it a bad idea to attempt 9mm interchangability.

also would it be better to make a round thats changable with 45ACP.   basically a 45. dimension cartridge but necked down to 6mm or smaller. would that be more practical in terms of sharing magazines

smg762

From: smg762

9-Nov

assuming a  90 grain bullet that was all-steel,, could the steel core weight 90 grains or is steel a bit too light for that

smg762

From: smg762

9-Nov

how does the 7n penetration compare to modern 4.6 or 5.7 loads, 

smg762

From: smg762

19-Dec

If you had a improved 7n, basically a  spritzer 9mm with 650 ft lbs and all steel bullet, would it match the penetration of the 4.6?

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