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Military Guns and Ammunition

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This is intended for people interested in the subject of military guns and their ammunition, with emphasis on automatic weapons.

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NGSW Phase 2 Consolidation and info   Small Arms <20mm

Started 30/8/19 by gatnerd; 547488 views.
DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

16/8/21

Epic troll

Sten556 said:

Trying to steal the limelight of the superior caliber by taking its name is the sort of underhanded tactic the Grendel cabal used to kill off the competition.

Well played.

stancrist

From: stancrist

16/8/21

roguetechie said:

Again I'll point out that In my initial post I deliberately said Im going to use this as an absurd example that illustrates my point wrt time of flight...

Baloney.  You said no such thing.

Here is what you actually wrote:

"We see this issue much more acutely with grenade launchers whether they are LV or HV so I'm going to use them as an example.

The US military right now is looking to buy something like the xm25 again because they need an HE flinger to service urgent targets up to 1000 meters. So why would they be looking for something with a much shorter time of flight and higher velocity even at the cost of drastically reduced explosive payload and blast radius when they have the fancy striker AGL with very advanced grenade sights which can reach out to way past 1000 meters Tony?"

https://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages?msg=7519.1248

EmericD

From: EmericD

16/8/21

stancrist said:

FYI -- This is the only statement in the RFI about time of flight: After trigger pull, time of flight to target no greater than 3 seconds to 500 meters.

The ToF of the US 40 x 53 mm HEDP is 2.78 sec at this range (500 m).

DavidPawley

From: DavidPawley

16/8/21

roguetechie said:

between a 22 and 24 inch barrel that does oh let's say no more than 2600 fps and is let's just call it between 270 and 280 caliber.

Ha. Sten556 is your sock puppet! I see it all now.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

16/8/21

I wish I was that talented.

roguetechie

From: roguetechie

16/8/21

Yes, it turns out both trajectory and time of flight are important. 

If you can't hit what you're aiming at (and even 40x53 needs you to direct hit if you're trying to bust things like VBIED's) your shots are essentially wasted.

But again, none of this was actually ABOUT the whole 40x53 versus xm25 thing... (That's an interesting topic on it's own though especially since the Chinese have done some interesting work in this area)

I love that rather than understand that an example is an example this forum's rather predictable response is to uselessly chase Their tails beating the example to death rather than Actually address the real issue I was bringing up.

Well played sirs, you have once again fended off someone's best attempts to have a useful and productive conversation.

I trust you are proud of yourselves.

stancrist

From: stancrist

16/8/21

roguetechie said:

Yes, it turns out both trajectory and time of flight are important. 

???  Since I said nothing like that, your statement makes no sense as a response to my post.

roguetechie said:

If you can't hit what you're aiming at (and even 40x53 needs you to direct hit if you're trying to bust things like VBIED's) your shots are essentially wasted.

That's true of pretty much any infantry weapon.

roguetechie said:

But again, none of this was actually ABOUT the whole 40x53 versus xm25 thing...

Then you should not have brought it up.

roguetechie said:

I love that rather than understand that an example is an example this forum's rather predictable response is to uselessly chase Their tails beating the example to death rather than Actually address the real issue I was bringing up.

Your example was meant to substantiate your claim that "time of flight always matters" by making another claim that the reason for the Army's Precision Grenadier system is to get a shorter time of flight than the Mk47 gives.

I proved that you are wrong.  https://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages?msg=7519.1328

                                                     https://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages?msg=7519.1330

TIME OF FLIGHT DOES NOT ALWAYS MATTER.

  • Edited 16 August 2021 16:04  by  stancrist
QuintusO

From: QuintusO

16/8/21

I'm sure they'll end up using a handheld launcher in 40x53mm, then!

stancrist

From: stancrist

16/8/21

How the Army's New 'Smart Scope' Works in Combat

Check out the GunMag Warehouse Youtube Channel and subscribe: https://bit.ly/3spZuy3How did we get to computer powered scopes that calculate bullet drop inst...

Red7272

From: Red7272

16/8/21

roguetechie said:

Yes, it turns out both trajectory and time of flight are important. 

This section level ability to engage at a km always gives me a migraine, especially now with so many other options than direct fire. Switchblade was a start and even integral to the squad, but no lets go with some enormous direct fire contraption that will be all but useless otherwise to provide this completely irrelevant capability. I mean they are probably shooting at a couple guys in a pile of rocks 1000 metres away who are now running since their job is done. Ignoring the fact that they don't particularly care if they die and there are no moral disadvantages to the enemy if the patrol kills them, what is the point?

A couple rounds of 60 or 81 mm prox will completely fuck up their day but that is apparently too low brow for the modern US army.

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